Technique: RS Square Running System

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RS Square Running System

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Category: Dinghy classes
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Topic: RS Square Running System

Posted By: transient
Subject: RS Square Running System
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 1:50pm

I'm contemplating a RS200. I've got most of the Pre Purchase questions sorted except for the "RS Square Running System"

Could someone explain what it is, how it works and is it worth the extra faffing. I assume there's an extra pole involved but I could be wrong, I also assume there's some goosewinging involved but again I could be wrong. I've seen a few 200s but can't recall seeing such a thing, perhaps no one bothers. I shall be using the boat mainly for racing but I do spend some time cruising around Chichester harbour.....as much detail as you can give would be helpful Smile

Replies:

Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 1:56pm

Never heard of it.. but a bit of googling

http://www.dovestonesc.org.uk/rs200.html

“BUT WAIT”, I hear you say, “aren’t asymmetrics a pain on a run”…YES they are, but this is the genius of it all. It has something called SRS (Square Running System), with a tweaker here and a check line there, a pole out here and a crew sat there…the kite is “Goose winged” and ready to sail downwind…GENIUS!!!

On the circuit, however, the SRS is not allowed. This is not a bad thing though. Against other asymmetrics the SRS would make racing boring. The nature of the spinnaker means that the racing downwind is as tactical and a hell of a lot more fun than upwind

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:00pm

It was on the boat when it first came out, but was scrapped, I believe. This was for one of 2 reasons, depending upon who you speak to. Reason one, it was almost always faster to goosewing down to the lee mark, but this meant there were no downwind tacticsin terms of gybing angles, vmg and the like, so goosewinging the kite was banned. Reason 2 was that if you have boats reacing into the lee mark from port and stb coupled with boats running directly there, there was too much chaos and too many places to try and look for approaching boats.

I remember using the square running system when it came out (there was a block higher on the mast to pull the kite to so you could leave the bowsprit in and so reach to goosewing) and for handicap racing on a lake it was a fantastic thing.

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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:18pm

Thanks for the link Alex, I did google but didn't persist long enough (clearly)

"Reason 2 was that if you have boats reacing into the lee mark from port and stb coupled with boats running directly there, there was too much chaos and too many places to try and look for approaching boats."

I can imagine Ouch

Looking through the class rules:

1.3.27

On masts supplied with a plastic grommet where the tweaker line exits, the grommet

may be replaced with a sheave box. The hole cut in the mast to install the sheave box

shall incorporate the original hole for the plastic grommet, and the exit point from the

sheave box shall be within 10mm of the exit point of the plastic grommet. The presence

of the tweaker line in the mast is optional. If the tweaker line is removed from the mast,

the spinnaker halyard shall enter the mast through the lower (tweaker line) sheave box.

If the tweaker line is present in the mast, it shall exit the mast at the lower (tweaker line)

sheave box and the spinnaker halyard shall run from the head of the spinnaker through

a block or ring attached to the end of the tweaker line, before entering the mast at the

upper (spinnaker halyard) sheave box. All RS200s shall be capable of deploying the

"Square Running System" (SRS) by simply installing a tweaker line and spinnaker

halyard as described above, and by carrying/using a booming-out pole (as described in

1.3.23 above). Under no circumstances may the systems internal to the bowsprit be modified.

.......Is it not allowed on the circuit?

I'ts probably not as complicated as it sounds but I guess what I really need is a blow by blow description of how it's rigged/used.

Posted By: hum3
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:49pm

Hi transient

The SRS never really took off, and it's definitely not allowed at circuit events. I've been in and out of the class for 10 years, and never even seen it used for fun.

The reason for the rule change above was to allow the rigging of the boats without the SRS, as it was redundant. It simplified the system and removed something which could go wrong. If you're really keen to give it a go, I'd suggest you get in touch with LDC.

Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 2:52pm

Thanks Hum.

....as I suspected.

Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 19 Mar 13 at 4:07pm

My 200 came with the whisker pole and i can confirm in light winds it is quicker to goose wing the kite. But in my opinion the boat is better without it!

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Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 20 Mar 13 at 11:22am

I have used it and IMHO it is a waste of time. I thought it would help me to sail the RS200 to its PY on my small sausage shaped puddle but there was much more faff involved in deploying it that any gains due to being able to sail dead downwind were lost in the hoist/drop/gybe. You will find once you get good at sailing the boat that you will be able to 'soak' very low with the assymetric (by healing the boat to windward) that you are almost dead downwind anyway.

Basically the boat is setup so that the spinnaker hoists as a standard assym by default, but by locking off the rope that goes up the pole in a notch near the halyard cleat you can ensure that the pole does not go out and instead you can hoist the spinnaker higher up the mast and then you goose-wing the spinnaker using the pole (that is stored along the boom). Sounds very simple but there is lots to go wrong.

There is lots of extra gubbins in the pole and mast to enable it and the rule change allowed people to remove that extra complexity. Also at most circuit events for a while at least one boat snapped its tweaker line (the line which allows you to hoist the kite to a point further up the mast when using SRS) and ended up not able to use its kite so people wanted rid of these extra possible failure points.

In my opinion you are better off without it.

I never did manage to sail it to PY on my puddle so I bought a Scorpion which has a symetric spinnaker and that is much better suited!

Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 20 Mar 13 at 2:19pm

That all seems pretty conclusive then LOL

Gybefunny: I did consider a Scorp myself, sweet boats. We are going for a 200 though, 3 open events per year within a 30 mile radius of where we are, sick to death of the handicap issues........A big consideration when you don't want to spend the rest of your life driving (or arguing Wink

)

Posted By: kingdacks
Date Posted: 20 Mar 13 at 4:37pm

Rs200 is brilliant, the best circuit in the UK :D

Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 2:07pm

For those interested I Just found this on the 200 CA website. Seems to confirm the "don't bother, it's too much faff" theory.

On The Water - The Running Pole.....

Posted: 26/04/2001

Using the Running Pole

The running pole is not the best loved piece of kit on our boat! However we do find it quick on runs until we plane, so we have kept trying and now often manage without major knitting. Here’s how we do it, in case it’s any help.

First, some notes on how we sail the boat - as other set-ups may need something different:

1. We are on a single patch kite. I think 2 patch may be easier for getting it down.

2. We have rerigged our sprit tack line and check lines as one, as on the new 2 patch system.

3. We have removed the long elastic from the boom and have the running pole loose. It stows through small loops near the back of the boom and hooks to the original piece of elastic near the front of the boom.

4. When running, the crew sits on the windward gunwhale touching the shroud and the helm on the thwart to leeward.

5. We always go into normal reaching mode with sprit extended after hoisting and before dropping as we always get a massive knot otherwise.

Here is our action log (i.e. what we wished we’d done afterwards):

Crew

Helm

After hoisting in reaching mode:
1. Ease halyard.	1. Pull on check line.
2. Put the check line knot in the ‘V’. Cleat halyard.
3. Goosewing with weather sheet	Tension halyard.
(Get speed on - on short legs you won’t want to bother with the pole.)
	4. Pass pole from boom to crew.*
5. Put pole onto windward sheet and mast.

Gybing (if your pole is free in the boat):
.	1. Gybe the jib sheets
2. Pull in new spinnaker sheet.	2. Gybe the main.
3. Put pole onto new sheet, take off old sheet and put onto mast.	3. Pull on windward sheet and set kite.

Gybing (if you use the elastic system supplied with the boat):
1. Remove the pole and pass it back down the leeward side of the boom. Take care to pass it the right side of the shrouds (it may help to sheet the main in very slightly)	1. Gybe the jib sheets.
2. Pull in new spinnaker sheet and goosewing	2. Gybe the main.
	3. Pass pole from boom to crew.*
4. Put pole onto windward sheet and mast.

Changing from Running to Reaching mode before the drop:
1. Keep spinnaker setting.	1. Release check line knot from ‘V’.
	2. Pull tweeker line down mast.
	3. Pull halyard up.
4. Take pole off and stow on boom.	4. Take leeward spinnaker sheet and set kite in reaching mode or if you are dropping in a panic make sure there’s tension on the sheets (i.e. not flapping).

* If the crew is sat on windward gunwhale we find there is less disturbance in the boat if the helm passes the pole to the crew. Prior to this the crew is keeping the spinnaker filled with an arm held out.

Easy really - but here are some more tips from our experience:

Troubleshooting:

1. If kite ends up twisted around the sprit, or the downhaul or sheets fall over the sprit then send crew onto foredeck.

2. If clew gets into chute before the head and it is stuck, relaunch and try again, keeping some tension on the sheet while dropping.

3. If using the continuous elastic system take care not to twist the pole over so that a loop is formed in the elastic on the ring.

Deciding which side to set:

1. A burgee is particularly useful in deciding which side to set the spinnaker and vital for knowing when to gybe when it is windy.

2. Aim to set the spinnaker on the windward side of the boat. The spinnaker will not fill well if the mainsail is "by the lee".

3. If you are heading back to a leeward mark that you have just beat up from then expect to be on the opposite tack to the longest tack of the beat.

Dropping and hoisting in Running Mode:

1. Dropping in Running mode is a fairly high risk strategy. It is very easy for the sheets to fall in front of the sprit and usually at a time when the leeward mark is fast approaching!

2. Some boats do hoist directly into running mode. It seems to be important not to let the sheets loose so they fall over the front of the sprit.

Tactical Implications:

1. Running down on port tack, especially amongst other boats that are gybing downwind leaves you with few, if any, rights of way. Starboard tack running boats should still be aware that they will usually have to give way to starboard tack boats gybing downwind as these boats will have luffing rights.

2. With the continuous elastic system it may be less easy to "crash-gybe" than with a free pole.

Things in the water!

1. We have the centreboard 3/4 up in light weather and as far up as we dare when windier. It is a good idea to put it down before manoeuvres -gybes etc.

2. Don’t leave pole dragging in the water for too long (e.g. in the middle of a gybe) as it works well as a brake.

3. With loose pole, recommend only dropping pole overboard when being followed by someone who will pick it up for you. It does seem to float for some time though.

Good Luck

Harry Roome

Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 21 Mar 13 at 2:34pm

Originally posted by AlexM

On the circuit, however, the SRS is not allowed. This is not a bad thing though. Against other asymmetrics the SRS would make racing boring.

I raced 200s on the circuit in the early days when SRS was allowed, it was excellent, gave you the option to tactically switch modes.

However, you needed a reasonably capable crew to use the whiskapole which was not supported in the middle and quite long so easy to drop in the water.

What was proving to be the case was that the 200 was faster down a run with the SRS in almost all conditions except a very stiff breeze so the assy sailing was becoming limited.

RS encouraged the fleet to vote out / ban the SRS in circuit events, the rules where later changed to allow you to remove all the SRS extras from your boat which most circuit racers did. This has subsequently lead to the SRS feature evolving to extinction within the class.

I think the SRS feature was an excellent bit of design and made the boat very versatile but the feature has fallen by the wayside, this dosn't seem to have impacted its popularity though.