How long is reasonable to take avoiding

is

   Simple port and stbd, I was on stbd sailing down wind PORT boat is trying to claim they did not have enough time to avoid me (so I went behind them) I was on Stb gybe for at least 100m before we got close, they had seen me and they had at least 30 seconds, they claim that they were running DDW (it was a monohull) and did not have steerage way to take action - I dispute this, they were moving!

So how long is Sufficient time to take action? It was obvious we were on a converging course, It was light but constant wind and so I was on a constant heading. They could have gybed and headed up without dropping the kite as it was light wind.

I've had a quick look in the case book, but cannot find one that defines "reasonable time".

Can anyone help?

Windspeed was maybe 5kts and no tide. 

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Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Topic: How long is reasonable to take avoiding Posted: 21 Oct 07 at 5:49pm
	Simple port and stbd, I was on stbd sailing down wind PORT boat is trying to claim they did not have enough time to avoid me (so I went behind them) I was on Stb gybe for at least 100m before we got close, they had seen me and they had at least 30 seconds, they claim that they were running DDW (it was a monohull) and did not have steerage way to take action - I dispute this, they were moving! So how long is Sufficient time to take action? It was obvious we were on a converging course, It was light but constant wind and so I was on a constant heading. They could have gybed and headed up without dropping the kite as it was light wind. I've had a quick look in the case book, but cannot find one that defines "reasonable time". Can anyone help? Windspeed was maybe 5kts and no tide.
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Stuart O Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 22 Jul 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuart O Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Oct 07 at 7:03pm
	Reasonable is just that according to type of boat wind and course closing speeds, point of sailing, when a hail was made.... however in the circumstances you describe i personally think that was reasonable. Travelling DDW doesn't exonerate them and IMHO is a P**S poor excuse....I take it they managed to round up at the end of the leg or are they impailed on the banks of Grafham water? (If they are I apologise) Unfortuantely this sort of incident is occuring to often I have hailed at 300m at one boat with a kite up in a force 3 (20-30 seconds or so)and was ignored until a collision was iminant and they capsized beacause they had to crash gibe to advoid us

Worthy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 511	Post Options Post Reply Quote Worthy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 21 Oct 07 at 9:30pm
	You only need to give reasonable time before the start. After that, as long as you are not in the middle of a gybe/tack tough sh*t, the port boat is in the wrong.

NeilP Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271	Post Options Post Reply Quote NeilP Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 07 at 5:03pm
	There's no requirement to give time. The only way you could be in the wrong here is if you changed course without allowing ROOM to keep clear, or if you allowed a collision to occur which was avoidable AND which caused damage. Completely clear-cut, I'm afraid. In any case, the rules only ever require that you give room to keep clear, not time. Of course, the two may end up amounting to very much the same thing!!
	No FD? No Comment!

Scooby_simon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scooby_simon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 07 at 5:08pm
	thanks everyone, you are all confirming my view of this. Just looking for chapter and verse when I talk to the other helm.
	Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..

Worthy Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 511	Post Options Post Reply Quote Worthy Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 07 at 5:33pm
	I believe there is not even a requirement to hail starboard!! (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here).

Guest Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guest Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 07 at 5:51pm
	What NeilP says ...

Stuart O Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 22 Jul 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuart O Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 07 at 7:31pm
	No nee to hail....BUT IT HELPS

Contender 541 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 05 Location: Burton on Trent Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contender 541 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 07 at 8:08am
	Starboard Hail is just an advisory, it is the responsibility of the people on the course to be aware of what is going on around them. Hail of Protest is required though after they have hit you!!
	When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780

jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Oct 07 at 8:31am
	There are only 2 requirements in the RRS to hail: 1) For water 2) Protest Aside from that if you are not in a position where you know you have right of way over pretty much everything then keep a look out (I believe that is required by the RRS but not sure of a rule number). In the protest roo the Port boat would not have a leg to stand on and would be asked to retire (or DSQ'd) in very short order. Regards, Paul
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74