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Steve411 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Null

Perhaps it would make sense for the RYA to publish a book/brochure around the PY system for dummies, highlighting some of the myths, explaining how the system works and more importantly what the clubs should be doing to aid the system do its job.  If there was a greater understanding across the whole dinghy community then people would put a more reasoned pressure on their sailing club to fall in-line with the system correctly.

Great idea.
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- They host discussions at Sailing Clubs

- They presented at the Dinghy Exhibition

- They have an open dialogue with anyone who wants to make contact, when in truth, they could bounce you back to your sailing club (this is a product for affiliated clubs, not RYA members, or affiliated classes)

- They answer forum posts (sparingly to avoid sh1tfights)

- They have participants in the PYAG who are also willing to share non-sensitive information - either through open dialogue on here, or via email etc

Sure, a piece of paper would be nice.  But does anyone really think the record will be unstuck, even when Bas has travelled to deepest, darkest East Kent?  

Are we really so naive about human nature, that seeing 'our' class number reduced but 'our frenemies' go up won't feel somehow unjust- even when the rationale is explained to us with solid statistical backing?

I get where the Tea Party are coming from in their little quips, but this is the legacy of racing we are left with here in the UK, so I guess we need to make the best of it, put up with it or bail out.     

If Graeme really wants to be proactive and innovative- forget an IRC dinghy system.  The 'issues' are with human nature, not the formula or the change process.  Try categorising the boats into loose categories and running the racing scratch for a whole season.  Use some proper qualitative pre season and end of season surveys combined with quantitative participation data to see if the racing is 'better' and more widely supported throughout the club membership.  

No club I know would have the bottle to try it though.... and I don't for one minute think it would be an easy ride- you may end up losing participation in the short term, but gaining in the long when a non-threatening, easy going but competitive, 'free sailing' fleet develops.   

As sections of that fleet mature, and possibly gain more competitive requirements, it would naturally make sense to give them their own start- a re-birth of a class racing for those with more serious intention, with a backdrop of fun racing for everyone else without all this angst and bullsh*t. 


Edited by kneewrecker - 08 Oct 14 at 11:20am
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Racing on ponds requires , local knowledge, good boat handling, starting and tactics. These factors are far more important than a few points on PY and it's endless discussion.
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 11:30am
Originally posted by iiitick

Racing on ponds requires , local knowledge, good boat handling, starting and tactics. These factors are far more important than a few points on PY and it's endless discussion.

in which case - bring it on!  Forget the PY, let's group up in similar speed boats and get on with it..... 
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 11:34am
>Book/brochure

This sort of stuff? http://www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/portsmouthyardstick.aspx
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 11:47am
Thats the stuff, Jim - why don't the RYA write something like that so clubs know what is going on? Oh, yes, you have...
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 11:49am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by iiitick

Racing on ponds requires , local knowledge, good boat handling, starting and tactics. These factors are far more important than a few points on PY and it's endless discussion.

in which case - bring it on!  Forget the PY, let's group up in similar speed boats and get on with it..... 


Because the people it is worth worrying about results against also have all those skills to a similar level, so the speed of the boat once more makes a difference to results.

But I think I might have a word with our rear com sailing to see if we can do some results using bandings to see what happens.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Rupert

But I think I might have a word with our rear com sailing to see if we can do some results using bandings to see what happens.

Isn't that what most clubs are trying to do with slow, medium and fast handicap fleets?  We're now looking at those splits to try to ensure that all trapeze boats race together, separately from the hikers. Now, where to put the Blazes with their semi-trap wings....
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Rupert

 

But I think I might have a word with our rear com sailing to see if we can do some results using bandings to see what happens.

it's worth a try- but I fear without a disregard for the CT, it won't make a difference as it would always be seen as a 'pointless exercise' by some.

The other up-side is just think how much of reduction on resources would be needed to run racing.  All that timing and average laps nonsense, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had to 'fill in the blanks' when I forgot to record a time properly from the race hut.... 

It would be SO much easier just to record the finish positions, and everyone knows how well they did on the water, not in three days time once the numbers are crunched.    I think this would provide far more social cohesion too.  
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 14 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by JimC

>Book/brochure

This sort of stuff? http://www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/portsmouthyardstick.aspx


Yes yes yes we've all read it, what they don't tell you is how the national numbers are awarded and why, do the Great Lakes numbers affect it or not, ask Jim he'll say not, ask someone else they'll say maybe, someone else will fudge with 'oh if the individual clubs submit their returns then yes they do.'

Do we actually know how the Icon got to be stuffed, why have other boats never moved since 2008 (the year zero before they appeared to start with their meddling).

Lack of transparency invokes *Fullers Razor.

I'll find out when we get the Royal Visit, or maybe I won't, because 'they' don't tell him either, or blame will be apportioned to stats, which is a dead easy cop out, 'oh it's not us', the stats make it happen, when there are enough folk with enough experience and enough common sense to know, some of the resulting number lately are ridiculous and somebody should have stepped in.

No I don't want to start meddling like Redoubt, winning because you have some locally awarded personal handicap is worse than losing because your boat handicap is a bit harsh for the prevailing water/conditions/body shape.

And stability.. Stability is what is required handicaps, especially average handicaps should not move so violently, wether the sport is globally dumbing down or not.

*Page 16, 2.30 Post

Edited by iGRF - 08 Oct 14 at 12:14pm
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