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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wiki Sail by GRF
    Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

It's just too bad that all that wisdom of yours isn't translating into success at either of your not-exactly-high-end clubs, Grumph.

Depends how you measure success, once you've experienced it, at every level, you'll find it's a very shallow companion, one day maybe you'll lead a fleet of 500 of your peers, or win a world championship in a one design fleet of 200, or for four consecutive years win every series and event you entered, then maybe we can discuss success, meanwhile you carry on playing your banjo and I'll carry on enjoying my current lack of it.

Edited by iGRF - 31 Mar 13 at 11:26pm
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by iGRF

I dare say Rushall whoever he is paints some excellent pictures, but he from what I've managed to garner is an RYA man and the sum total of what the RYA can teach on tide and tide tactics can be written on the back of a fag packet.

More ignorance. Utterly wrong as usual. 

Mark is one of the UKs most enduringly successful, talented and respected sailors (and writers). He's also freelance and not an RYA employee/placeman.

His Tactics book is pitched at a far higher level than mine but I recommend it wholeheartedly. Except to trolls who cannot even be led to water, never mind made to drink, of course.
Great book for Club Sailors here
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 11:15pm
But one's not tidal, so don't lob that one at him MM... I've just checked, it seems the fin was bent.

Edited by pondmonkey - 31 Mar 13 at 11:19pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 10:51pm
It's just too bad that all that wisdom of yours isn't translating into success at either of your not-exactly-high-end clubs, Grumph.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 10:42pm
I dare say Rushall whoever he is paints some excellent pictures, but he from what I've managed to garner is an RYA man and the sum total of what the RYA can teach on tide and tide tactics can be written on the back of a fag packet.

I'm done trying to explain, it's a light hearted thread this, over the years I've lectured, argued the point with RYA Olympic coaches, demonstrated the error of their ways by practical example and have no need to discuss it further, maybe I should formally set it out in a theorem then maybe you'll believe it. I remember we once had a debate about lee bow and some other t**sers work got thrown into the debate, he was an offshore open water sailor where the rules are different, we're coastal and estuary sailors, for us it makes a huge difference to our performance as fundamental as knowledge of wind shifts, but if you don't grasp the very essence of what is happening and rely on suggestions of apparent wind vectors you won't get very far in understanding and feeling what's happening and why..
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by iGRF



Nothing any of you have written answers Jimbo's scenario, Bootscooter was more on the point.



I know I shouldn't encourage you but pond monkeys experience I believe is a simple matter of the point of sail between to two tacks relative to the apparent wind ( that is the wind over ground combined with the wind created by the current) being a different one of which probably the freer tack lead to faster sailing hence planing. 

Of course the wind direction experienced standing on the shore would have had no current component. 

Read Rushall's book it has some excellent diagrams that explain this. 


Edited by 2547 - 31 Mar 13 at 10:17pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:39pm
Trolling:

Originally posted by iGRF

Nothing any of you have written answers Jimbo's scenario, Bootscooter was more on the point.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:30pm
I wouldn't mind, if the terms and the maths were true, but patently they are not.

You are reeling off explanations that are just plain wrong, you believe them because they are couched in mathematical description derived by I don't know who, but whoever it is doesn't sail much in tide. That explanation of the apparent wind vector moving forward or aft is not correct, if it were, the kiters could ride with the tide, they can't..

The truth is in fluid dynamics, both air and water are fluids, acting on foils. Trying to suggest that what is happening is some mystical effect of the apparent wind is confusing. You don't even understand it or you would be able to explain better, rather than trying to suggest my explanation is wrong, look to your own.

If you don't get it straight in your head, how the hell are you going to deal with a wind bend that after lunch becomes a progressive tidal bend, how do you map a course out in your head? I'd love mark rushall to explain it, I shall go and have a look, but i bet it's full of inaccuracy and confusion.

Nothing any of you have written answers Jimbo's scenario, Bootscooter was more on the point.




Edited by iGRF - 31 Mar 13 at 9:31pm
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Apart from his own of course....

let's go windsurfing by Graeme Fuller

Looks like good proofing - with "Graham" on the cover and "Graeme" in the listings
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posts: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Quote scotsfinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 13 at 9:09pm
Good one James ...looks like the marine eqivalent of Fly Fishing by JR Hartley ..... Times have moved on it seems
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