New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Grafham Grand Prix
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Grafham Grand Prix
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1415161718 22>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grafham Grand Prix
    Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Ruscoe

Graeme why would someone design a boat specific for handicap racing really? surely the ultimate goal is to sell enough of a craft to create a fleet?  

Well if you had a boat that can sail any course then surely it would follow that it would quickly become popular enough to form itself into a fleet, that said other factors need considering of course like market size, dynamics, economic climate etc.
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
Ruscoe View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 11:11am
Graeme there are loads of boats that can sail every course type already, but i choose to sail a single hander with a kite, same as someone else chooses to sail a 49er or skiff.  The fact is there are plenty of us and as such can sail a course to suit or chosen craft best.  As for designing a boat that could sail round the cans as a single hander, its called a D-one pal.  It single sail reaches fantastically, its fast upwind and off wind.  But lets be honest, it sails best on a W/L course. As you will just not hold the kite on a tight leg, but thats the choice you take when buying a single handed kite boat.
 

Back to Top
rogue View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 11:15am
Here's an analogy...

Would you race a slalom board around the cans against LBs?   It's designed for a speed blitz using apparent wind, gybe hard, speed blitz back...   that's fundamentally what asymmetric racing is in its purest form, sure enough it's still dinghy sailing, so throws in some more tactics and corners by going up and downwind rather than cross, but the basics of short, sharp n' sweet are true its roots.

Asymmetrics became 'kewell' in the 90's, so nearly every main manufacturer started making asymmetric dinghies, some even got the moniker 'skiff' to make them keweller. Taken at face value asymmetrics are easier to crew- a bit like cruising chutes on yachts. So they attracted some people with their cheap, relative accessibility to trapezing offering a trendier image free of yellow wellies and/or bananas taped to your mast.    (As an aside twin pole systems (which have been around for 20 years + to my knowledge) are finally getting approved in class rules, so symmetric kites really aren't the nightmare they've been made out to be in the past)

However the sad fact was most sailing clubs didn't adopt a racing format to suit asymmetrics and many still don't, even those which (normally) would have the water for it like Draycote. So you get an entire market segment disenfranchised and they've either gone to another club, picked up a hybrid (like a 400) or worse, f**ked off to the golf course...    

I wouldn't knock events that provide both formats, it's good for the sport.



Edited by rogue - 03 Jan 12 at 11:43am
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 11:54am
Er why not make the old feckers race W/L then?

Better still Triangle Sausage caters for both. and if the beat's long enough and the reaches set deep?

Can see the need for fast and slow handicap starts, it's just nice to see very one going round the same course in roughly the same direction..

Whatever, I do see your point though and understand why it is the way it is.

It's why I guess boats like the Alto evolved which offers the benefits of either as in a way does the 400 with it's wingish wang.

So had I gone I guess I'd have had to pitch into the fast handicap then, will that be the same at QM with the Bloody Mary?
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
Ruscoe View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 12:01pm
No Graeme the Bloody Mary is a straight RTS course. 

Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by rogue

Here's an analogy...

Would you race a slalom board around the cans against LBs?  


Well in reality that's how it all started back in the mid eighties some French hot shot took the then World Cup apart sailing a slalom board fast and low, then came Formula with ever increasingly wide boards that could only sail W/L and in planing conditions only, then for my sins I hit on the idea of the Hybrid which ended up with the current Olympic board which could do both. In a way I'm trying to do it again with the dinghy..


Edited by G.R.F. - 03 Jan 12 at 12:08pm
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

No Graeme the Bloody Mary is a straight RTS course. 
And RTS means?
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
oldarn View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by rogue




I wouldn't knock events that provide both formats, it's good for the sport.


Since these big kited boats exist whether single or double handed, then, I agree, if it is practical in such events, then both formats are used, but if not practical and/or in tidal waters, then tough luck on the big kited asymmetrics.
I question whether the 505 need remain in the medium fleet now due to their large kites and the fact that (as I understand it) the class has opting for W/L courses. Perhaps it is time for them to join the fast asymmetrics.
thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
Back to Top
oldarn View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Can see the need for fast and slow handicap starts, it's just nice to see very one going round the same course in roughly the same direction..



I agree, but it's back to practicalities. With so many entries at these events, it's a way of spitting the starts.
thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
Back to Top
Contender 541 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 05 Dec 05
Location: Burton on Trent
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1402 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 12 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by Ruscoe

No Graeme the Bloody Mary is a straight RTS course. 
And RTS means?
 
RTS - Royal Televisual Society (not sure what it has to do with sailing though)
When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1415161718 22>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy