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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Adults protesting children
    Posted: 17 May 07 at 5:51pm
> its 'so they say' not illegal as it doesnt mean
> anything; and it avoids a protest.

If I was on the Protest Committee I'd disqualify you under rule 2 and let you take it up with the RYA if you don't like it. Its close enough to Case 45 (shouting starboard when on port tack that I'm sure the RYA would uphold the DSQ. Depending on the precise circumstances I'd also consider a rule 69 hearing with a view to DSQ from the series and a report to the RYA.
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Prince Buster View Drop Down
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 07 at 5:39pm
sounds like my uncle's old trick.  Yelling "Rule 53, Clearway!" at them seems to do the trick!
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Splosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 07 at 5:04pm

Spliting it up seems a good idea. Only last week me (14yrs old in a vortex) and my bro (15yrs old in a rs600) got a well big shouting at by a man blaze !!! He threatend to crash into are boats and couldnt stop cursing! we gave in as are boats are worth alot to us and let him pass. At the end we asked what he was playing at...he apparently got his left (port!) and right (starboard!) muddled up ?!?!

On a funny note, one way some sailors get passed the learners (in oppies) at alton is to shout "card board" at them; and try to sound powerfull. They apparently get out your way fairly quickly because they don't know what it means and its 'so they say' not illegal as it doesnt mean anything; and it avoids a protest .

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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 07 at 3:19pm

One way that my old club used to do (still do) was that within racing the boats would be split into gold/silver/bronze for evening races and last race on a sunday.  B - 1st season/new racer etc.  S - season or 2 done, won the bronze fleet.  G - experienced racer/won the silver fleet.  You were not allowed to shout at anyone in the fleet below you (Bronze had own start but gold and silver together) so if anyone broke rules it was more like coaching with more experienced person explaining what was wrong etc rather than agressive rule shouting/protests etc.

Seemed to work very well, gave new people a more relaxed environment to learn and everyone learnt the rules at all levels.
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Ian S View Drop Down
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Posts: 68 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 07 at 10:24am

If the sport is to continue at a respectable level then we need to encourage rule observance.. part of that should be what happens when it all goes horribly wrong..

From personal experience I see lots of effort going into the sailing part but getting young sailors learning the rules is limited to windward leeward, port starboard and water at the mark.

Protesting is a good way for people to learn, it doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be confrontational.. and any good club protest committee would I hope then discuss the rules with the offenders, we certainly do when it occurs. 

Much better to do this and learn in a friendly club environment than at a Nationals.....

Lets face it, at junior football you can't get away with not knowing the offside rule and then acting upset when the ref steps in..
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 9:31pm

When I was 15, in my first serious race, I called for rights I didn't have (as it turned out) on some old blokes (aged about 19). They responded by yelling 'protest' at me very loudly.

They didn't protest as it happened, but it sure made me go home and look up my 'Elvstrom Explains...'
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stuarthop View Drop Down
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Posts: 1040 		Post Options Post Options   Quote stuarthop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 8:19pm

Originally posted by john.d.knight

I was talking to a friend last night whos 14 yr old had been protested by an adult during club sailing. I don't know the ins and outs of the case but the child was in the protest hearing by himself and he lost the case. It doesn't seem fair that 4 adults can accuse and judge the child without some sort of representation or help for the child, it just seemed that this situation would be so intimidating for most children that it doesn't appear fair. Is this covered by any particular rules or if children are racing with adults they have to be treated like adults?

I think this is perfectly fair, when i was 12ish (a hardcore oppy sailor) i won a protest for redress against an international juror. That was a scary protest but it was all good practise for the future

 

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Posts: 59 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 7:27pm
I do a fair amount of team and match racing these days and have recently qualified as an umpire so know the rules better than most. I would however say I have known the rules better than alot of adults since I was about 11 or 12 as I found rules and rule situations more interesting than the majority of school work! Also I have alway sailed in competative fleets such as 200'2 and 400's. Now whilst I have a good grasp of the rules I have never been into a protest room as a protester or protestee. I have never hit another boat and been in the wrong and have only ever done any form of turns other than hitting a mark in team racing. Everytime I have protested someone it has been in a situation where people have known they were wrong and done there turns.

I would say that I wouldnt know much about what to do in the protest room if I hadnt sat on protest comitees and so feel that a child being protested by an adult isnt a bad thing so long as the child is taken seriously. This is in know way different to on a startline when kids are "shouted out of the way". This has happened to me and I have always been confident enough to stand up to adults and give as good as Ive got. Now maybe I benifit from having not come through the youth clases route and therefore have spent most of my life sailing against adults and so have never known any different to shouting at adults.
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Prince Buster View Drop Down
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Posts: 1146 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 6:53pm
In my opinion every protest, won or lost, is beneficial to a young sailor.  It teaches them the intricacies of the rule book and also gives them protest room experience that could help them to win protests in the future.  In my oppie days I became known as quite a prolific protestor and I can honestly say it has helped me a lot as a sailor.
The point about protests not being taken too personally is very relevant though.  There is so often bad feeling surrounding protests and it really shouldn't be that way.  People need to accept that whether or not they were in the wrong the committee's decision is final and that due sportsmanship should be shown.
international moth - "what what?"
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Charlie View Drop Down
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Posts: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Charlie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 6:44pm
Just get them to do some team racing, they'll learn the rules so bloody quickly just so they can try and bugger up the opposition.
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