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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rise Of The Ok etc
    Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 3:29pm
No but you did accuse Jeff of shopping at boots for some rimmel no 5,and you were a little disingenuous with your comments about the v3k.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

not everything in this sport of ours is a conspiracy.


Maybe not, but there is a never ending supply of chancers looking for a way to exploit every loophole an unsuspecting 'honest' if a little disorganised chap can open up for them.

At least 29 I think I saw on Apolloduck last time I visited.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by iiitick

Originally posted by winging it

damn I dropped a stitch

Nessa....is it one plain and two pearl on the third row or two plain and one pearl?

Other threads are available - or you could knit your own.  Sorry, strictly speaking, spin your own, I guess.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by maxibuddah

not everything in this sport of ours is a conspiracy.


Maybe not, but there is a never ending supply of chancers looking for a way to exploit every loophole an unsuspecting 'honest' if a little disorganised chap can open up for them.

At least 29 I think I saw on Apolloduck last time I visited.


But then perhaps another lipstick clad bandito that had been exploited by the never ending supply of chancers is the solo. Performance unrecognisable compared to an earlier glass boat, yet the frp ones have the same py. How can an OK compare now?

By the way the current number for your records is 20 for sale. A lot less than the 53 enterprises on there.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 3:44pm
Nope - it was Rimmel Number 4, but that's hardly an exclusive accusation to Vandercraft and/or the Phantom Class- there's plenty of lipstick classes out there and plenty of people making a living from supporting them across the industry.

As for the V3K/L2K (what should I can it now then?) - my point is simple, whether intended or otherwise, imho many people who sail against them, do not differentiate between a Laser version or a Vandercraft version.   In the same way they wouldn't differentiate between a Feva with dacron sails and one with mylar XL sails.  In same way they wouldn't instantly recognise the difference between an old topper Blaze and one of the new Mk3 epoxy Cirrus ones.  

That's not a criticism- it's a perception, an observation.  No need to take offence.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 3:52pm
I'm sorry that you seem to think that I shouldn't take offence but when you say things like the following, accusing decent people of deliberately misleading people then I shall.

they took a defunct class
and massively improved its performance, claiming it still fell
under the same umbrella and retained the original handicap.
They even had the audacity to run it out as a 'convertible',
so you could lose some lard out of the boat and single hand
it in light weathers.
And that was done by whom... ahhh yes, Vandercraft, the
same people who allegedly smeared the Phantom


Oh and just using the word allegedly doesn't get you off, this isn't hignfy and you are not Ian Hislop.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

I'm sorry that you seem to think that I shouldn't take offence but when you say things like the following, accusing decent people of deliberately misleading people then I shall.

they took a defunct class
and massively improved its performance, claiming it still fell
under the same umbrella and retained the original handicap.
They even had the audacity to run it out as a 'convertible',
so you could lose some lard out of the boat and single hand
it in light weathers.
And that was done by whom... ahhh yes, Vandercraft, the
same people who allegedly smeared the Phantom


Oh and just using the word allegedly doesn't get you off, this isn't hignfy and you are not Ian Hislop.

and what of that is not true?    They didn't launch it as a completely new class - it was orchestrated in direct association with the existing class, so naturally it is perceived to be the same class, same people, same handicap, even though the product was substantially different.

As for the Phantom - it was the ultimate makeover dinghy - and very successful it was too, in part due to the perceived generous handicap situation it found itself in.  For a short period of time that was, until a) the handicap started to drop so some of your class spat their dummy out and are selling/have sold out and b) something 'better' has come along and gained some traction in your membership- particular in the SW.

As the venerable Kate Hopkins tweeted yesterday- I don't give offence, you choose to take it.  Make better choices. 
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 4:11pm
I'm only going by what Jeff told me about his intentions for the v3k class, but as you know better (as you always do) I will therefore bow to your greater knowledge. Oh and try not to take offence at that last comment
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 4:20pm
no please feel free to take offence at that last bit- I'm quoting Katie Hopkins FFS, I trust you can take it with a pinch of salt mind.

And I am not suggesting that in reality there is any 'conspiracy' around any lipstick classes, or indeed the commercial opportunism that Graeme believes- they are simply trying to survive in a competitive, shrinking market space where costs are going up and clients are getting greyer.

Obviously those selling 'classic designs' with modern twists, usually have the will and endorsement of their existing customers in the guise of a class association- sailors have money invested in their classes, and most importantly, they want friends to race against- in class racing, and generally speaking, not hopping from one fad to the next at ten grand a pop, hoping the PY will keep up with that market to make the racing credible.  

I've owned 'lipstick classes' myself- I've no issue with them in the slightest.  


Edited by kneewrecker - 07 Oct 14 at 4:32pm
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 14 at 5:05pm
Anyway, this seems to support what I said on P1:



Originally posted by kneewrecker


OKs are excellent boats, but one I feel naturally lends itself to fleet racing, or at least racing against other OKs within handicap racing, rather than Billy-No-Matesing it against a mix of other single handers.  




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