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Tacking for the mark - hail
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tacking for the mark - hail
    Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 12:58pm

A near incident recently has been bothering me for a while and I wonder if you could give an opinion? I was close-hauled on starboard approaching the port lay-line of a starboard rounding windward mark more than 10 boatlengths from the mark. There was one boat about 2-3 boatlengths to leeward and slightly ahead, it was about f3 so I was just on the wire. As I was thinking about tacking, the boat to leeward shouted 'Tacking for the mark' and immediately tacked. As it happened I tacked at the same time and they ended up directly astern.
 
However if it had been any windier I would have sailed on for another boatlength or 2 before tacking so I could free off a bit and plane upwind. In this instance they would have hit me or I would have to crash-tack to avoid them probably capsizing to windward. I had never heard this call before but have subsequently heard it again at least once indicating that this is likely to happen again.
 
My rules knowledge may not be fantastic but I don't believe the other boat has any rights in this situation at all as I am on starboard and can tack when I want (or not at all) with no 'proper course' to windward.

Opinions please.
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Noah View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:06pm

I agree - he cannot tack & expect you to keep clear. He's now on port and as such the 'give way' boat.

To play devil's advocate a bit, his hail could have been 'informative' just to let you know what he was doing, and if you hadn't tacked he could / would have ducked your transom. Or, the hail might have been speculative - to see what your response was...

My rulebook is out of date, however, so I could be wrong - it has been known

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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:07pm
I don't believe the other boat has any rights to force you to tack either. You can push them as far past the mark as you like.
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:12pm

The other time I heard it (2 different boats) they definitely thought this gave them right of way as there was a near collision and a lot of shouting afterwards. I'm wondering if this is a local misinterpretation which has spread throughout the (sometimes quite insular) club.



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English Dave View Drop Down
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Posts: 682 		Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:15pm

No, I don't think they had any rights either.

As leeward they are right-of way boat until they pass head to wind, at which point you have the rights. They are not permitted to tack "into you". Unless the boat could carry its way at a head to wind position to luff you from 2 boat lengths away, I cannot see how they would have been entitled to call anything on you.

In windward/leeward courses this is the reason to round the bottom mark nice and tight because even if you are slightly behind a boat, if he is lower than you you can control when he tacks.
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:19pm

No rights at all. 

This is the reason that generally stb mark roundings are not a good idea as you have people tacking onto port to round it and loose rights.  But this is the reason they are used in match racing.

But as stated above, it could be an"information" hail, but still carries not weight in the rules.  The person hailing this needs their rule knowledge correcting PDQ.

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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:35pm
Straight port & stb situation ... if I heard someone say that I would shout starboard loudly so they understood my intentions....
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 1:44pm
The other boat was right of way boat until she passed head to wind. She was then tacking and must keep clear. On reaching a close hauled course she was on port tack and must therefore continue to keep clear. Your only obligation would then be to  change course in such a way as to give her room to keep clear.

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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 2:15pm

Originally posted by gordon

The other boat was right of way boat until she passed head to wind. She was then tacking and must keep clear. On reaching a close hauled course she was on port tack and must therefore continue to keep clear. Your only obligation would then be to  change course in such a way as to give her room to keep clear.

Gordon

And there was me thinking that you had to hold your course as a stb boat! My understanding is that although Port has to give way to stb... stb has to hold her course (no deviation) unless advoiding a collision. Been in many a protest room where port has argued that stb has altered course therefore causing the collision.

 
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 07 at 2:18pm
might a Rule 2 / 69 be apporpiate here ?
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