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Hitting a Mark... |
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jeffers 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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 Topic: Hitting a Mark...Posted: 30 Oct 20 at 11:25am |
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Removing the rules can also cause confusion.
RS have (or used to have) a rule for their events that said if you hit a mark you didn't need to take a penalty. This was only for RS Open meetings.
Cue the issue when someone in club racing hits a mark, doesn't take a penalty and uses the defence of 'I sail an RS my class says I don't need to take a penalty'. Thankfully after explaining they were happy to accept it was only for Class Open events. It is a can of worms though..... similar to the Finn pumping rule (although that is easier as it requires a flag to be displayed). |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Andymac
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Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 5:03pm |
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Mozzy, In the absence of other boats, there would be no problem in taking a penalty turn in the zone, but the issue is gaining an immediate entitlement to mark room in a crowded area without the other boats having any opportunity to give it. I would suggest that the penalty boat needs to sail outside the zone and 'slot in' the queue in an orderly manner at that point.
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Mozzy
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 21 Apr 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 4:11pm |
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I think it's fine.
The whole thing about no getting an advantage when breaking a rule and completing a penalty is different from this situation. They aren't gaining an advantage, they are limiting their losses. If they don't get room when going to the finish a second time, then how will they ever finish?
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Brass
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 1:16pm |
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All the boats outside the zone when the penalty boat touches the mark have given the penalty boat mark-room then, so no more mark room when they arrive.
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Andymac
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Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 12:03pm |
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But does it? What about the boat that was outside the zone when mark room was first given (by another boat(s)). But is in the zone when penalty boat makes second 'claim' to mark room?
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Brass
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Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 11:43am |
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Thanks for the reaching example. I agree that it's much more problematical.
I think the problem will be solved in the 2021 rules, where a new last sentence is added to rule 18.1 Rule 18 no longer applies between boats when mark-room has been given. Edited by Brass - 29 Oct 20 at 1:11pm |
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Andymac
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Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 11:33am |
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Brass, In the scenario you have illustrated (downwind finish), indeed there is little chance of a conflict arising.
Take a different scenario when the finish is on a fetch/reach with a steady stream of boats... The penalty boat first tacks then gybes... Straight into the stream of boats, with a claim to mark room... On a normal inside overlap at a mark, the zone provides the buffer. How would you propose a solution to the situation then? Mine would be something like; Addendum case 108 or explanatory note (or whatever it takes) 'A boat taking a penalty turn within a mark zone forfeits any entitlement to mark room and cannot re-establish entitlement on completion of the penalty over other boats already in the zone'. How would you see that? |
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423zero
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Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 11:19am |
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Would be Exciting to see large cats doing that.
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Robert
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 10:36am |
Windsurfers have done this for years (not that most of them paid any notice beforehand mind you
 ) and it is a licence to barge in at speed. |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Brass
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Posted: 29 Oct 20 at 8:29am |
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Andy,
As any law student will tell you, never rely on a headnote. I'm not trying to kid you that this outcome was carefully considered and approved by the rule-makers: I'd suggest that it is an unlikely and unusual situation that was never in contemplation. Note that the 'unbuffered' flip-flop occurs @8 when Y passes head to wind (completes her penalty, ceases to be required to keep clear by rule 22.2, and simultaneously becomes required to keep clear by rule 13, so it's only going to affect a port tacker way deep of the layline coming in red hot. Edited by Brass - 29 Oct 20 at 9:22am |
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