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Laser - to cleat or not to cleat

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9096
Printed Date: 28 Mar 24 at 10:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Laser - to cleat or not to cleat
Posted By: barclay174
Subject: Laser - to cleat or not to cleat
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 11:58am
Not having my own boat, I sail club Lasers & have found the ones at my new club are differently set up to the ones at the old club. Most notably, these ones have a cleat for the mainsheet - & after one race I can't decide if this is a good thing or not. Clearly, I can eliminate the 'forgetting to uncleat while tacking & getting knocked in the water' problem & cleating does make beating much less tiring - but on the other hand, I can't help wondering if I wouldn't have been able to point higher & maintain speed better if I'd been constantly playing the main as usual.

I'm sure this is a question so obvious as to be almost embarrassing, but would very much appreciate any advice.

Thanks
Lucy



Replies:
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 12:04pm
In a Laser the fastest way upwind is to be constantly tweaking the main. Cleating means you cannot react to changes in the wind (gusts and lulls) and you can very quickly find yourself swimming.
 
The flip side is that you need strong arms as the load can be relatively high.
 
I have owned several lasers and on each one I have removed the cleats if they were fitted they are (literally) a pain in the a**e (as this is where you need to be hiking when going upwind).
 
Some of the 'older' generation like the cleats because they are not as strong/dynamic and this helps them with that but IMO a cleat on a mainsheet in a dinghy (unless you are in a spinnaker boat or cruising a lot) is not necessary.


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Paul
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D-Zero GBR 74


Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 12:09pm
I have a selection of cleats in my toolbox, removed from the different Lasers I have owned.
Do these boats have ratchet blocks? If they do then you dont need a cleat.
If you are finding the mainsheet heavy when playing it are you putting on enough kicker, pulling the kicker on harder makes playing the mainsheet less work.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 12:26pm
 More trouble than they're worth for the reasons already posted.
 
If you need a spare hand to adjust other stuff, pass the mainsheet to your tiller hand and do both with one hand. I can't remember the last time I used one, I don't even when I hoist the spinny.


Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 1:30pm
As someone with arthritic fingers I find the cleats invaluable. Even though I don't use them all the time, but they are great to have there when you run out of hands, need a rest in strong winds. Just because they are there doesn't mean you have to use them all the time.

If you are youngish and fit and aiming for the front of the fleet then getting rid of them may be the right route, for mere mortals having them there can be very useful.


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Peter
Ex Cont 707
Ex Laser 189635
DY 59


Posted By: A Seabadger
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 1:31pm
The cleats give you lovely bruises on your thighs!!
I removed mine.

Seabadgers mum

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I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it.


Posted By: barclay174
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 2:37pm
Many thanks guys, you have confirmed my suspicions & I will try to avoid the cleats in future (as I can't remove them) with both mainsheet & bum!

GybeFunny - yes I do have the kicker on hard, but being just about off the bottom of the weight range for a Radial I still have to work the main fairly hard to stay upright in anything breezy/gusty!


Posted By: Jon711
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 3:22pm
I can not really comment on the Laser, but when I removed the mainsheet cleat, on the Blaze, I went a lot faster!!

Jon

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Blaze 711


Posted By: Fraggle
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 3:39pm

If its a centre main sheet jammer you are talking about remove it quickly.  Last thing you need is a cleat there.

However, deck cleats I find much more personal preference.  Some people hate them and are very anti them.  I have them on my boat but don't use them racing.  They can be invaluable if you have a long sail out/home from a race area (such as at the Laser Qs) where you can cleat the main and just cruise for a bit to have a rest.
 
Whether you have them or not you should try not to use them whilst racing as you need to be playing the main. 


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Posted By: rogue
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 3:55pm
Whilst I 100% agree to get them off a Laser, it's worth remembering cleating isn't a totally redundant skill to master.  

You'll certainly need one if you plan to sail an asymmetric singlehander and they more than have a place on a unarig with a traveller set-up like a Finn or Solo.  


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Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by barclay174

Many thanks guys, you have confirmed my suspicions & I will try to avoid the cleats in future (as I can't remove them) with both mainsheet & bum!

GybeFunny - yes I do have the kicker on hard, but being just about off the bottom of the weight range for a Radial I still have to work the main fairly hard to stay upright in anything breezy/gusty!

Try not to avoid them too much with the bum! They are in the perfect place to sit about 80% of the time when going upwind.  Problem is they chew your kit to bits.  I had a pair of hikers that had lasted a good 2 years without any damage ruined after 2 days at a worlds where I was using a charter boat with the cleats fitted. 2 more days and my backside was in a similar state!  The solution, lots of tape on the cleat. Stops it pinching your hikers or wetsuit and cutting it up.  

Perhaps you could speak to the club and suggest they remove them, if nobody uses them, which they shouldn't, then who is going to mind?


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Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 7:24pm
never did me any harm and were useful in case I wanted to be doing something else with my hands, like tying something off that had come loose. Also as said before very useful for a long sail out, or back from a course and you don't want your arms to ache too much.

As for the ripping of hikers, wear some lycra shorts over the top and it probably won't happen. I had mine for 6 years without too much damage. OK not as fashionable as sporting the latest Zhik gear all over the place for that important camera shot, but sod that I live without it cos the cost is horrendous to replace them. Then again I never went to a worlds so I probably ain't that good upwinf


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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 14 Mar 12 at 10:12pm
I would have got myself some lycra shorts if I had known that laser would screw cleats on to all the brand new boats that we were using... I didn't ever have a problem in my boat which didn't have cleats fitted. 

I wonder how many cleats have been wasted by laser sending them to people who then don't fit them? Probably easily enough that their value would pay for a boat or two! Probably more...


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Posted By: mattmd
Date Posted: 18 Mar 12 at 6:19pm
Pro- loads are high so can give you a break, don't cleat for too long or get lazy you do need to play the main

cons- sit on the cleat hurts but you get used to it

I had micro cleats and they were great when needed, positioned on the sides and would recommend 


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Matt MD
Contender GBR-620



Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 18 Mar 12 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by laser193713

I would have got myself some lycra shorts if I had known that laser would screw cleats on to all the brand new boats that we were using... I didn't ever have a problem in my boat which didn't have cleats fitted. 

I wonder how many cleats have been wasted by laser sending them to people who then don't fit them? Probably easily enough that their value would pay for a boat or two! Probably more...

Assume that Laser are idiots and prepare for the worst, always


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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 22 Mar 12 at 2:49pm
I have to have a cleat now, because I can't hold the sheet for long enough. The megabyte, however, has a centre jameer, which I'm very suspicious of - falling foul of a cleated main was how I shrdeed the wrist in the first place.  I'm now thinking to switch a side deck cleats, given that they will be an inevitable  fact of life from now on.

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the same, but different...



Posted By: Hughph
Date Posted: 29 Mar 12 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by laser193713

I would have got myself some lycra shorts if I had known that laser would screw cleats on to all the brand new boats that we were using... I didn't ever have a problem in my boat which didn't have cleats fitted. 

I wonder how many cleats have been wasted by laser sending them to people who then don't fit them? Probably easily enough that their value would pay for a boat or two! Probably more...

When I picked up my boat from laser they gave me the cleats and asked whether I wanted them on when I got there...


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Posted By: Fraggle
Date Posted: 30 Mar 12 at 10:05am
When you pick up your own new boat you get the choice of whether to fit them or not.  Charter boats at worlds come fitted with them usually and you are not allowed to unscrew any fittings on a charter boat usually.

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Posted By: bustinben
Date Posted: 31 Mar 12 at 10:32am
Personally, I hate cleats. Cannot see any reason why you would want them Smile  They get in the way, and when are you going to use them exactly??  I sail out to the start at a laser qualifier at 120% effort to warm up LOL



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