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420 vs J22

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Keelboat classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for keelboat questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8458
Printed Date: 19 Oct 17 at 6:23am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 420 vs J22
Posted By: lizzerrslitherr
Subject: 420 vs J22
Date Posted: 26 Oct 11 at 5:45pm
What is the difference between sailing a J22 vs a 420?
I realize that the J22 has a motor, but isn't that just for the sake of convenience?



Replies:
Posted By: Mister Nick
Date Posted: 26 Oct 11 at 6:53pm
I think the main difference is the fact that a 420 is a small dinghy and a J22 is a keelboat, meaning that the J22 is a much bigger boat with a much bigger rig.


Posted By: themeaningoflife
Date Posted: 26 Oct 11 at 7:00pm
+1 Tongue

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Cambridge University Lightweight Rowing Club
RS800 1128

kindly sponsored by http://www.rwo-marine.com" rel="nofollow - RWO Marine


Posted By: lizzerrslitherr
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 3:17am
So if I've only ever sailed a 420, what would I need to know about the J22 before sailing it?


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 7:22am
The J22 is a completely different boat to the 420.  As stated above, the J22 is a keelboat, however the experience gained on a 420 would be of great benefit since the J22 has a similar rig layout.  The most obvious difference is that you cannot launch the boat in the same way as a dinghy and you cannot trailer it back home after every session.  You would need some sort of mooring for the boat.  It is also much heavier than a dinghy, less likely to capsize and includes a v-birth, small galley and heads for cruising.  You can check out more details on the following link:
http://www.jboats.com/j22/ - http://www.jboats.com/j22/
 


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Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: Mister Nick
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by lizzerrslitherr

So if I've only ever sailed a 420, what would I need to know about the J22 before sailing it?

You need to bear in mind the draught will be a lot bigger on the J22 so you won't be able to sail into shallow water - if you do, you won't be able to get back out easily because obviously it's not practical to lift the keel up whilst sailing (I don't know if a J22 has a lifting keel or not). Obviously if you hit something it's going to do more damage that a 420 because it's much heavier. The loads on everything will be a bit bigger, which shouldn't be a problem provided you're careful. You also need to consider where you're going to store the boat. I imagine a J22 is trailable as it's pretty small, so you've got the option to lift it out and take it home after each session. Your other options are paying for a swinging mooring (which you will need to learn how to sail onto), or paying for a berth in a marina (some locations will only have one of these available to you depending on where you sail). If you don't want to anti foul the boat then you can dry sail it (meaning that it will be put in the water when you want to use it, lifted out afterwards and stored in the boat yard) although this is a pretty expensive way of doing things and unless you're racing the boat seriously then it isn't really worth it if there are other alternatives available. It's a good idea to go and sail on other peoples keelboats before you buy your own so you can get an idea of the best way to do things. It'll teach you what to do when things go wrong and how to do everything you need to be able to do for yourself on your own boat. There isn't a huge difference between actually sailing a small keelboat and a dinghy, but there are fairly big differences between storage, maintainance etc.


Posted By: bferry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 3:55pm

IMO I wouldn’t dream of launching/recovering the boat after every sail.  Its a guaranteed way to ensure that you will not use the boat often and abandon it at a later stage.  A swinging mooring is definitely the better option.  Otherwise just stick to dinghy sailing: less costly, easier to handle and more likely to keep you interested.  Alternatively, go for a larger cruiser/racer with marina berth etc if you can afford the time and money, although the experience would be nothing close to sailing a dinghy with a lightweight planing hull.



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Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 4:16pm
I'm going to guess that the original poster has merely been asked along to sail on one, rather than thinking of getting one for herself? I think she may be more interested in the actual sailing (crewing?) technique than the nitty gritty of ownership.

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Al


Posted By: ASok
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by bferry

IMO I wouldn’t dream of launching/recovering the boat after every sail.  Its a guaranteed way to ensure that you will not use the boat often and abandon it at a later stage.  A swinging mooring is definitely the better option.  Otherwise just stick to dinghy sailing: less costly, easier to handle and more likely to keep you interested.  Alternatively, go for a larger cruiser/racer with marina berth etc if you can afford the time and money, although the experience would be nothing close to sailing a dinghy with a lightweight planing hull.

 
Completely disagree. If you can afford it then dry sailing a small keelboat is the best option. Easier to keep clean and no antifouling. Its no hassle at all.
 
Swinging moorings are actually more of a hassle than they sound. You have to motor or paddle out to get your boat. The outboard won't work, someone stolen your tender, the water taxi is busy taking everyone else up the river etc. etc.


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Posted By: r2d2
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 5:20pm
420
J22


Posted By: Mister Nick
Date Posted: 27 Oct 11 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by bferry

IMO I wouldn’t dream of launching/recovering the boat after every sail.  Its a guaranteed way to ensure that you will not use the boat often and abandon it at a later stage.  A swinging mooring is definitely the better option.  Otherwise just stick to dinghy sailing: less costly, easier to handle and more likely to keep you interested.  Alternatively, go for a larger cruiser/racer with marina berth etc if you can afford the time and money, although the experience would be nothing close to sailing a dinghy with a lightweight planing hull.


If you can afford it, dry sailing is a FAR better option. Anti fouling takes up an insane amount of time at the beginning of every season, and you still have to scrub the boat regularly because it doesn't work all that well. Plus you don't have to play that big a part in it moving the boat, you just make sure the yard knows you want the boat in and out on certain dates and they should do it for you. Where I sail, everyone has swinging moorings and they are a pain. You have to pay extra cash for a rib or dory or whatever to get you out to it, they tend to be very exposed in rough weather and you are limited to the boat to flake sails and whatever. Plus, if you rip a sail or something then getting it ashore in a 5m rib, with 8 people and all their gear on board is a challenge. Plus the boat regularly needs cleaning, anti fouling helps but by no means does it totally prevent growth. You need a scrub at least once a month to keep the boat competitive.


Posted By: lizzerrslitherr
Date Posted: 28 Oct 11 at 8:53am
Originally posted by alstorer

I'm going to guess that the original poster has merely been asked along to sail on one, rather than thinking of getting one for herself? I think she may be more interested in the actual sailing (crewing?) technique than the nitty gritty of ownership.

Although I do appreciate the rest of the input, you are correct. 
I doubt that I'll be purchasing a boat in the near future.

This is the technique forum, correct? Or should I move it somewhere else?


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 28 Oct 11 at 9:48am
It is the technique forum, you're not wrong. Sorry i can't offer any advice, but hopefully knowledgable people will be along soon to help!

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Al


Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 28 Oct 11 at 11:11am
The mechanics of the two boats are exactly the same. If you are confident sailing a 420 then you wont find the J22 to be anything to worry about.

The main difference is the crew number - 420s obviously sail with 2 crew and their roles are fairly well defined. J22s have a crew weight limit of 275kg which typically means 3-4 crew.

Exactly what jobs these crew do and how they do them will change from boat to boat. If you know what you will be doing on the boat we can offer some more detailed advice.


Posted By: StephanieG
Date Posted: 27 Jan 16 at 3:53am
Originally posted by Mister Nick

I think the main difference is the fact that a 420 is a small dinghy and a J22 is a keelboat, meaning that the J22 is a much bigger boat with a much bigger rig.
totally agree



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