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Farr 3.7

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5489
Printed Date: 23 Jan 18 at 8:16am
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Topic: Farr 3.7
Posted By: iwsmithuk
Subject: Farr 3.7
Date Posted: 07 May 09 at 11:07am

Saw a mention of this on Sailing Anarchy.

http://www.sentech.co.nz/farr37 - www.sentech.co.nz/farr37

Looks like a fun boat, sort of cross between a mini Contender and a Solo on steroids.

Are there any in the UK? Has anyone on here sailed one in NZ?

 




Replies:
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 07 May 09 at 11:22am
Farr 3.7's are great little boats. The story apparently goes something like this:

Bruce Farr turns up at the 12ft Skiff Interdominions in the late 60's with the Farr 3.7. Wins the practice race by miles. So that evening the class pass a rule that 12ft skiffs have to carry at least 2 crew members.

I saw one in the flesh in NZ. A real beauty! Foam sandwhich carbon hull. C-tech rig and fyfe main. Didn't get a chance to sail it though, I was a bit busy competing in the Inters.


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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 May 09 at 12:14pm
I have a Farr Cherub in the UK which is a very similar shape. Two sails and more rag of course, but she's a delight to sail singlehanded.

I've heard the 12ft Skiff story too, but always umpteenth hand. I wouldn't guarantee its accuracy in any detail. Delightful as my Cherub is as a singlehander its very hard to believe that she would win races in any breeze against a similar boat two handed with all 3 sails up, let alone the 12s of that era. In a drifter possibly, but only then. I think the story may have got amalgamated with a similar one about a 12ft catamaran.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 06 Apr 11 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by iwsmithuk

Saw a mention of this on Sailing Anarchy.


http://www.sentech.co.nz/farr37 - www.sentech.co.nz/farr37


Looks like a fun boat, sort of cross between a mini Contender and a Solo on steroids.


Are there any in the UK? Has anyone on here sailed one in NZ?


 



There will be a Farr 3.7 in the UK in a little over 30 days. If you are interested you are more than welcome to come and sail my one. Go here for more details: http://www.ukfarr37.blogspot.com - UK Farr 3.7 blog

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 06 Apr 11 at 10:47pm
The story, like so many other ones involving big bad race or rules committees, is exaggerated to the point of being wrong.

The tale of the 3.7 is pretty well set out in NZ Sea Spray and other magazines of the time.  Even before creating the boat Farr was musing publicly about it, but it was banned before turning up and (if I recall correctly) before being built. I've sailed against Farr 3.7s (was supposed to have a go of one but the owner's car broke down on the way) and know their old yardsticks and as Jim said they didn't come close to a 12 for all-round pace. Lovely boat, though.

The 12 Foot Skiff class here has used the stuff I dredged up for its historical information a couple of times (in an Oz Sailing mag article and for an Interdoms piece), so it seems that they think it's pretty accurate.






Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 06 Apr 11 at 11:07pm
  Very interesting to see there's going to be one of these in the UK.  It's always been a boat that's caught my eye as although I love sailing my contender, I am a bit on the light side.  Kinda looks like a good lightweights alternative to me.   


Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 1:57am
I plan on building one when I finish uni. Plans are available and I have a CNC machine at my disposal to build the bulkheads etc for me. It would be stupid not to. Mine will definitely have a kite though! Possibly a bigger main. It's not as windy hear in the UK. I already have a smallish Fyfe mainsail that might do the job.

Possibility of flopping a mould off the hull or building one full boat and a male mould to build a foam sandwich boat later on. hmmmmmmmm........money.......Confused


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Ross
If you can't carry it, don't sail it!


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 8:52am
Thats great news about the 3.7 coming into the country, JS! Good to see you are documenting the trials and tribulations for us all to see, too.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Rupert

Thats great news about the 3.7 coming into the country, JS! Good to see you are documenting the trials and tribulations for us all to see, too.


I'll do my best, hopefully not that many tribulations!

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Ross

I plan on building one when I finish uni. Plans are available and I have a CNC machine at my disposal to build the bulkheads etc for me. It would be stupid not to. Mine will definitely have a kite though! Possibly a bigger main. It's not as windy hear in the UK. I already have a smallish Fyfe mainsail that might do the job.
Possibility of flopping a mould off the hull or building one full boat and a male mould to build a foam sandwich boat later on. hmmmmmmmm........money.......Confused


Ross... Peter Kovesi has kindly given me his nested Auto Cad file for laser cutting the parts if you are serious about the project let me know and I can send you them.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 10:31am
What is the target crew weight for a Farr 3.7?
 
I really love the concept of the boat, light weight and simple. Hope it arrives safe and sound Daryl.
 
Also, has anyone else noticed how much cooler their boat trailers are down under?! They really take their boat transportation seriously! 


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http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 10:55am
55kg to 85kg seems to be the suggested weight range. I'll hold judgement on that upper weight range until I've had a sail in her. I'm just over 70kg, but could ( should ) lose a little. So I think I should be a fair test for the rig size in the UK.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 11:47am
I shall be following your progress with interest.  I bet if it goes well there will be a few more people interested in bringing one of these to the UK.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Foiling_Toff

I shall be following your progress with interest.  I bet if it goes well there will be a few more people interested in bringing one of these to the UK.



I hope so. And will do my best to keep the blog up to date.

Tim: as for trailers... yep the Southern Hemisphere boys and girls seem to spend a bit more time in this department. Well at least in the classes I am interested in.

In the case of my boat, I was very pleased that she had a box trailer, as shipping the boat is a little less stressful, with the boat having a nice transport crate already.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 11:57am
How cost effective is it to import a boat in this way?  Obviously this isnt a brand new boat so compared to say buying a second hand boat here in similar condion how does it work out? Would it have been cheaper to perhaps build the boat here?

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Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 12:04pm
I love te look of the Box trailers, i fancy building one for over here.  You could use an Old caravan Chassis.  It would also have the benefit that you could sleep in it and keep your gear safe at events!!

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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 12:22pm
Something I'd not realized is just how numerically small the class is even in NZ. 

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by laser193713

How cost effective is it to import a boat in this way?  Obviously this isnt a brand new boat so compared to say buying a second hand boat here in similar condion how does it work out? Would it have been cheaper to perhaps build the boat here?



a rough estimation of building one here. Well not that rough I've had a few builders quote. Would be about £3900 for the hull and a rough price of £7000 for everything with a trolley and cover. That's with rig and sails from NZ - C-Tec / fyfe.

Building yourself is obviously much cheaper. I have had a quote for £110 for laser cutting the Ply parts. It's about £50 for the plans and materials are a couple of sheets of ply and a tub of Epoxy, paint and a bit of glass. Very rough estimate of £600 for materials. Then it's your time.

So yes, if you are building yourself it is much cheaper.

I wanted to get good one over here so I there was a boat that was fully sorted in the UK. Rather than build one and guess about fitting placement and set up etc.

Plus it was cheaper than building one. And obviously quicker. The total for the boat and shipping has come in at £5500. And she is last years Nationals winning boat. With a box trailer. There are some much cheaper boats than mine for sale and shipping just the boat and beach trolley is also much cheaper, as shipping is done on volume.

A good place to look is TradeMe.com but unfortunately you can't contact anyone on that site as you can only register if you live in AUS or NZ. So the best place to start is the Class Association.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Something I'd not realized is just how numerically small the class is even in NZ. 


Yep, but the fleet is quite active in NZ. And the boats last.

The class hasn't really ever made it off NZ shores.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 1:16pm
I know someone who would be interested in one of these. Are there enough people out there to really weant and to commit to having one built.
 
What would a builder give as a price if they had firm deposits from say 6 buyers. The deposit would need to be set at a level where the buyer will not back out easily - say 50% of build costs.


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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 1:28pm
NZ is a small country with a population of 4 million as opposed to 60 odd million in the UK. Class numbers are always going to look small to us. Plus the NZ National authority has had a crazy policy in recent years of discouraging local classes and only supporting International ones where they possibly can...


Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 2:07pm
I'd say £7000 for a brand new boat, custom or not, is decent value.  How much does a RS100 come to with trolley and covers?


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Contender443

I know someone who would be interested in one of these. Are there enough people out there to really weant and to commit to having one built.
 

What would a builder give as a price if they had firm deposits from say 6 buyers. The deposit would need to be set at a level where the buyer will not back out easily - say 50% of build costs.


PM me... I'm sure we could sort a builder out that would be interested in building a limited run at a competitive rate.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Foiling_Toff

I'd say £7000 for a brand new boat, custom or not, is decent value.  How much does a RS100 come to with trolley and covers?



That's a pretty rough estimate, I wouldn't hold a builder to it. But... :)

went away to find figures...

Hull £4200 added a bit of tolerance
sail £650
mast boom £1080
foils £430
stock (est) £200
Fittings (est) £500
Cover (est) £80
Combi (est) £500

TOTAL £7640

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: YerTiz1851
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 7:11pm
What a great looking boat, I'll be asking for a test sail..!  But JS, there will be no fancy covers for you to make by the looks of the photo :-). 


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 7:24pm
I know!..... but I can always do the Assy kite mod!

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Adamk93
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 7:55pm
I suppose if we're on a run of small fast trapeze boats and you're thinking of adding an assy, probs should mention the light skiff (baby musto skiff). Ive spoken to the designer and although he was rejected by ovington as a builder he has secured a builder over in germany. She maybe isnt as sleek as the 3.7, but she looks fast and well designed if the musto is anything to go by.




Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 9:05pm
yep... good to mention. It's not really my cup of tea, and at 7.3sqm mainsail really is focused at very, very small people. And I am 5'3. The Farr 3.7 has a 8.8sqm main by comparison and is 10kg lighter.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 10:09pm
That baby MPS was the other boat that has caught my eye recently, although my ambition remains to have a go at the real thing when I have the time and money.  Considering I struggled to make my radial to upwind in any sort of breeze I think the light skiff may suit me better.  


Posted By: JMB1
Date Posted: 07 Apr 11 at 11:45pm
In Oz - the majority of people keep the boat at home and trail to the club every time so it is handy to have an all-in one boat garage and storage system.  They look flash and keeps the boat and all the gear in good order - but actually getting the boats in and out of the trailers is somewhat of a pain in the rear end compared to a typical UK combi...


Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 12:46am


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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC


Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 10:41am
Is it actually possible to buy one of these?  I've always felt there must be a market for it, so it would be interested to see if the sales figures would back this up if it were given the chance.  I guess so many people sail on ponds where they can get away with being over canvased, so maybe not.  Looks like it would still carry a fair bit of weight on the sea though.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 11:18am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImN_UU3WFM&feature=youtube_gdata_player%20%20 - YouTube Link

The Farr 3.7 I would say is more user friendly in restricted waters, as you are able to hike / sit in on side decks when going deep. It is much more of a conventional boat in that way. When going up hill, tight or just when fully powered up you hook on. Where as the light skiff is not really set up in that way. So you'll be doing a lot of crouching on the guwales trying to stay hooked on inland unless you are 40/50kg.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 11:36am
I would guess it's (the light skiff) not really aimed at inland waters as most people would probably just get the real thing.  At just over 60kg it's the waves that I find challenging in most boats upwind.  


Posted By: skslr
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by JMB1

In Oz - the majority of people keep the boat at home and trail to the club every time so it is handy to have an all-in one boat garage and storage system.  They look flash and keeps the boat and all the gear in good order - but actually getting the boats in and out of the trailers is somewhat of a pain in the rear end compared to a typical UK combi...
 

Well, you save the pain in putting the covers on.

Over here many Finn Dinghies travel in closed trailers - that's where the money is....


Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 12:41pm
The only problem i can see with the box trailers on something like our 505 is storing the thing at events.  For instance at the nationals at Lyme it was a squeeze with a standard combi base.
 
I can see how a box trailer would be great for a wooden boat as it would mean no covers touching the decks in the frost.


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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

]I can see how a box trailer would be great for a wooden boat as it would mean no covers touching the decks in the frost.




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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: alstorer
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 12:50pm
A useable box trailer for many UK vanues would have to be fold-down- you'd almost need something with removable panels that could be stashed under the trailer, allowing the boat to be rigged "in" the trailer.

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-_
Al


Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by alstorer

A useable box trailer for many UK vanues would have to be fold-down- you'd almost need something with removable panels that could be stashed under the trailer, allowing the boat to be rigged "in" the trailer.


I'm guessing not everyone will have one anyway so you will be fine, others might just have to stack their flat trailers on top of each other if there isn't enough space. I can't see a problem, box trailers are great!


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Needs to sail more...


Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 1:04pm
Despite the glam (and grin) factor of single-handed with kite, many club courses just don't suit this.  Yeah, you'll have a great time if you go out for a blast, or if you launch off a beach to open sea or a big harbour (or even resevoir).  I know the MPS has been successful, and to a measure so far, also the RS100.  But other 'experiments' haven't proved as successful IMO such as the Vareo, RS700 and the not-so-widespread but fantastic IAC and I don't think that's because they're not good boats in their own right, just that across the UK, their are a limited number of clubs where racing such a beast (i.e. 300m+ course legs) make sense and the MPS fleets built quickly and have sustained that to some extent as well.

Their could well be a gap in the market for a 'lightwieights Contender'... will be interesting to see where this goes


Posted By: Barty
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 1:27pm
On the trailer front, I developed a design for a box trailer that had accomodation in it.  The boat went in with the accomodation cell ina raised (concertina) position then when the boat comes out the trailer turned into a mini caravan for open events.
 
The main problems were:
1. Cost of the trailer over a normal combi and b&b's
2. Ended up needing 2 spaces as the accomodation prevented the boat being stored.
3. Weight and size - fuel economy.
 
Never really took it any further as I didn't see a market in the UK.


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http://www.highlandtopper.com - For Topper boats & spares in Scotland-highlandtopper.com


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 1:31pm
Of course, we are talking about a design as old as the Laser and nearly as old as the Contender, so many on here should be wringing their hands, saying how out of date it is!
Personally, I see that time period of design as being a great one, where boats were designed to work across a range of conditions, whilst still pushing the design envelope.


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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 2:21pm
Barty,
I am sure you are right about the target market for such a trailer, but surely making one out of an old caravan chassis is possible?  I am not sure about it being a full on caravan but a box system which you could unroll a couple of camp mats must be better then a tent stuck in the ground.  They would almost certainly protect the boat better over the winters too.  I may have a look at making one.  To be honest i could keep my combi for events when space is at a premium or you were staying in a hotel.  But for 2 day opens it could be perfect, especially if i could run 12v lighting system chargeable off the car battery like a caravan too!!


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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by getafix

Despite the glam (and grin) factor of single-handed with kite, many club courses just don't suit this.  Yeah, you'll have a great time if you go out for a blast, or if you launch off a beach to open sea or a big harbour (or even resevoir).  I know the MPS has been successful, and to a measure so far, also the RS100.  But other 'experiments' haven't proved as successful IMO such as the Vareo, RS700 and the not-so-widespread but fantastic IAC and I don't think that's because they're not good boats in their own right, just that across the UK, their are a limited number of clubs where racing such a beast (i.e. 300m+ course legs) make sense and the MPS fleets built quickly and have sustained that to some extent as well.Their could well be a gap in the market for a 'lightwieights Contender'... will be interesting to see where this goes


For me this is why the 3.7 is a sensible choice. And the NZ Association is sensible enough to recognise that some people want to fit a Assy Kite for a bit of fun, in the rules. But I accept that I am much better off sailing the boat with just the Mainsail for racing. I may add a Assy in the future just for fun, but I wouldn't be looking to adopt it for class racing.

The other benefits are that it is a One Design. Not a SMOD. And a One Design that allows an amount of modification / home build if you want ethic, which I like.

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by getafix



Their could well be a gap in the market for a 'lightwieights Contender'... will be interesting to see where this goes


I'm looking for the "heavyweights Contender" that would go well in light winds!


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 08 Apr 11 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Of course, we are talking about a design as old as the Laser and nearly as old as the Contender,

Not remotely! In practical terms Northern hemisphere designs didn't catch up with where Farr et al were at the beginning of the 70s until at least the end of the 1980s.


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 9:37am
The southern boats may well have been better in many ways but IMHO in other ways, particularly sectional shapes, the UK designs lead the way.  The U section seen on modern boats like NS14s, 12s, Int 14s etc was seen in Merlins and National 12s long before it arrived in the southern hemisphere. 

"Personally, I see that time period of design as being a great one, where boats were designed to work across a range of conditions, whilst still pushing the design envelope."

There's a lot of truth in that IMHO!


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Rupert

Of course, we are talking about a design as old as the Laser and nearly as old as the Contender,

Not remotely! In practical terms Northern hemisphere designs didn't catch up with where Farr et al were at the beginning of the 70s until at least the end of the 1980s.
Surely the Contender was a Southern hemisphere boat, and the Laser designed in conjunction with Ian Bruce, who also had a hand in the Tasar, amongst other boats. Neither of the designs I mentioned had huge European influence, and both have been panned on here by certain people as being "Old".

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 1:30pm
OTOH the U sections were also seen on Morgan Giles 14s and Raters and NZL Napier Patikis from the turn of the last century...


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 11 Apr 11 at 1:49pm
With respect, Jim, those were very different U sections to the type that first really popped up (IMHO) in Michael Jackson's N12 March Hare.  The reasoning Michael used for his sections is pretty much identical to the reasoning used many years later by Nash when he pretty much introduced that way of thinking into NS14s and then 12s etc.  Earlier NS14s that went well, but had less influence, were definitely influenced by March Hare because their designers wrote about it.

Nash was able to take it further because of rules and technology, but the narrow U-shape "displacement" hull can easily be seen to be something that arrived rather later in the southern hemisphere and then took over from the traditional "flat vee" shape, which was of course rather forced on designers by ply construction, despite the best efforts of guys like Macca to bend ply flat along the keel line.

The dominance of the southern boats in design (rather than rule and dimension) terms may be over-rated as indicated by the last of the "open" 14 worlds when the ultimate "Aussie" 14s, the Wedges, met the Howletts etc in San Francisco.  Paul Bieker noted that Most of the Australian hull designs have very flat bottoms, with a little rocker distributed evenly over the length of the boat, low chines, and fine bows. This style of boat is potent in flat water and 12 knots or more breeze, planing earlier and faster than other designs. However, in light air they seem to be relatively slow, due primarily to high prismatic coefficient and a greater tendency towards transom immersion. When breeze is accompanied by large chop, these boats tend to 'slap' enough upwind to restrict their powerful planing capacities, and they show a greater tendency to cartwheel downwind, forcing the crew to throttle back a bit in order to survive.”

The top Aussie 14ers confirmed Paul's information, and indicated that the rounder, narrow-stern Howletts etc were actually very potent in light and heavy winds despite being heavier, narrower and having smaller rigs.  

I suppose it also depends on where in the performance spectrum you are looking - Holt's boats had a huge influence down here, and the most popular boats include those like the Sabre and Sunburst which are no faster than their UK equivalents like Solos and GP14s/Ents.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 17 Apr 11 at 5:02pm
Umm... been fishing for a week in Ireland and the discussions shifted to MJ's N12's!

Anyway I've just found out that me Farr 3.7's got a an old NZ style 1 7/8ths trailer hitch.... which is a bummer. I'm not sure I want to take my angle grinder to the docks to fit a 50mm hitch. Looks like I will need a trailer for the trailer!



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Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 9:31am
Nice mullet :-)


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 10:05am
Could you get them to stuff a ball in the package and bolt that on your car at the docks (don't forget to get the bolt spacing) or is it already at sea?


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 12:00pm
Unfortunately it's at sea. But a good idea. I think though that a flat bed trailer will be the most reliable method, as I wouldn't be 100% about the NZ ball bolt holes matching my Mazdas tow bar bracket. I might ping an email to a trailer company over in NZ and ask? Thanks for the suggestion though.

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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Pierre

Nice mullet :-)


Yes but this is a better one.... :)



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Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 1:21pm
Jack
 
We had the same problem with the hitch on Design Source when she came in.
 
I've got a roadbase you can borrow if you like.  Just take the wheels off the Kiwi trailer and strap the whole lot down to the roadbase.
 
Bob


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12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by
AC - GBR271 - Whoosh
B49 - Island Alchemy


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 8:06pm

Jack - there is a picture on your blog showing a 3.7 with a kite....will yours come dressed that way or will i get another trapeze boat to play with in the fast handicap at Burghfield?

Whats it like for speed (PY) - i'm thinking something like a contender!
 
Cheers
Mark


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RS300, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 10:00pm
Cheers Bob for the offer of the road trailer. I'll let you know if I need to take you up on the offer.

Neptune... My 3.7 is kite free at the moment. I have no idea what the PY would be!

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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Apr 11 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Neptune

Whats it like for speed (PY) - i'm thinking something like a contender

That would be extraordinary for a 12 foot boat.

She's very similar to a 1971 Cherub shape but less rag (and crew!). If I had to pick a trial number (as a 3.7 without kite) I would say 1100. That's faster than a contemporary (11ft) Moth (1143), but slower than a contemporary Cherub (1088). Will probably be very competitive in a breeze when she's planing upwind and down, but considerably less so in pure displacement conditions when there's no particular reason why she should be faster than a Solo.


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 19 Apr 11 at 12:37am
See  http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf - http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf

http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf - Singlehanders - Contender .96, Farr 3.7 .93, Finn .89, OK .88, Laser .88, Europe .87, Radial .87.

Others - 470 .99,  Fireball .96, Laser II .93, Flying 15 .93.

Those numbers look a bit old and a bit odd - they rate the Cherub and R Class between the Laser II and the Laser which appears very odd even if they're talking older Cherubs and Rs!

For more comparison, the Farr 3.7 has an old NSW (state) Yardstick here of 109 (Contender 109 (!), Laser 113, Radial 118, OK 117, Solo 125 but the NSW Yardstick is generally ignored in favour of the Victorian (state) yardstick which doesn't have a Farr 3.7 number.

From my number crunching, using the NZ figures for singlehanders the Farr 3.7 would rate 1039 on PY.  That puts it just right compared to its NSW figures against the Laser.

Edit - how it goes to that yardstick in the UK's (often) lighter summer winds is another issue.


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 19 Apr 11 at 6:30am
Neither the 3.7 or the 12 foot Kitty Cat were banned in that way - the 3.7 was banned before it raced (before it was built if my memory of my photocopied contemporary records is right) and the Kitty Cat won an Interdoms before it was banned.

In a couple of respects the 12 Footer guys put restrictions on boats allowed to race in their regattas, but the thing that interests me is how popular these tales of BBCBBBs (Big Bad Committees Banning Better Boats) are.  We see the same sort of tales about the trials that chose the FD, 505 and Soling, or the introduction of the Laser and catamarans.  It seems that all you need is 20 years to go past and some story about a breakthrough thwarted by a BBCBBB will emerge, normally based on BS!

I'm starting to think that history is actually written by the losers!  :-) 



Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 19 Apr 11 at 7:31am
Speaking as a persecuted loser, I think you may be right.

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tickel


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 19 Apr 11 at 11:34am
Originally posted by Chris 249


See  http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf - http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf
http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf - Singlehanders - Contender .96, Farr 3.7 .93, Finn .89, OK .88, Laser .88, Europe .87, Radial .87.
Others - 470 .99,  Fireball .96, Laser II .93, Flying 15 .93.
Those numbers look a bit old and a bit odd - they rate the Cherub and R Class between the Laser II and the Laser which appears very odd even if they're talking older Cherubs and Rs!

For more comparison, the Farr 3.7 has an old NSW (state) Yardstick here of 109 (Contender 109 (!), Laser 113, Radial 118, OK 117, Solo 125 but the NSW Yardstick is generally ignored in favour of the Victorian (state) yardstick which doesn't have a Farr 3.7 number.
From my number crunching, using the NZ figures for singlehanders the Farr 3.7 would rate 1039 on PY.  That puts it just right compared to its NSW figures against the Laser.
Edit - how it goes to that yardstick in the UK's (often) lighter summer winds is another issue.



That was what I was hoping for... ie around the speed of a Laser without the knee busting, back killing hiking experience. And as the breeze gets big, a lively 12 footer. But we will have to wait and see.

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Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 19 Apr 11 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Originally posted by Chris 249


See  http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf - http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf
http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/Upload/UserDocument/Technical/Handicaps.pdf - Singlehanders - Contender .96, Farr 3.7 .93, Finn .89, OK .88, Laser .88, Europe .87, Radial .87.
Others - 470 .99,  Fireball .96, Laser II .93, Flying 15 .93.
Those numbers look a bit old and a bit odd - they rate the Cherub and R Class between the Laser II and the Laser which appears very odd even if they're talking older Cherubs and Rs!

For more comparison, the Farr 3.7 has an old NSW (state) Yardstick here of 109 (Contender 109 (!), Laser 113, Radial 118, OK 117, Solo 125 but the NSW Yardstick is generally ignored in favour of the Victorian (state) yardstick which doesn't have a Farr 3.7 number.
From my number crunching, using the NZ figures for singlehanders the Farr 3.7 would rate 1039 on PY.  That puts it just right compared to its NSW figures against the Laser.
Edit - how it goes to that yardstick in the UK's (often) lighter summer winds is another issue.



That was what I was hoping for... ie around the speed of a Laser without the knee busting, back killing hiking experience. And as the breeze gets big, a lively 12 footer. But we will have to wait and see.
 
Not sailed one but saw them in Wellington, and I reckon that's exactly what you'll have, and you'll love it.


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12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by
AC - GBR271 - Whoosh
B49 - Island Alchemy


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 29 Apr 11 at 7:52pm
Thanks to a nice guy called Keith, who posted on my blog, I have found this place http://www.malpasonline.co.uk/CatalogueViewer/PageViewer.aspx?publicationID=176&startPage=86&layoutType=SINGLE&SKU=S.10642&Mode=&DefaultZoom=100 - Link
Which may solve my trailer ball size issues. The Internet can be such a helpful place. :)

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Posted By: ellistine
Date Posted: 30 Apr 11 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Thanks to a nice guy called Keith, who posted on my blog, I have found this place http://www.malpasonline.co.uk/CatalogueViewer/PageViewer.aspx?publicationID=176&startPage=86&layoutType=SINGLE&SKU=S.10642&Mode=&DefaultZoom=100 - Link
Which may solve my trailer ball size issues. The Internet can be such a helpful place. :)
Pleasure.

Hope it works.


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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 10:17am
Ahhh!!!!!!

VAT question!

The UK Import company seem to be suggesting that I need to pay VAT on the Farr 3.7 I have just imported into the UK.

The boat was built in NZ several years ago, and is secondhand.

Does anyone know the VAT situation for this type of import.

Bob... did you pay VAT on your 12 footers?

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Posted By: Graham T
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 10:26am
As far as I'm aware, yes you will need to pay VAT... But it has been a few years since I worked in a shipping office so I might be a bit rusty. 

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Osprey 55 "Tebutinnang"
Osprey 1245 "Two Bob Bit"
Miracle 1358 "Thumper"


Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 10:26am
Yes, you have to pay VAT and import duty.
 
I seem to remember that it was something like 5-10% Import duty plus he VAT at 20%.
 
You will need to provide the shipping agent with a receipt for the purchase, and the cost of shipping and insurance. 
 
You pay VAT and import duty on the total value + shipping and insurance costs I think.
 
Expect to pay about 25% - 30% of the purchase price in total (this is why the 12s are more expensive in the UK than they can be bought for in NZ o AUS).
 
It's a whole new world of pain.


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12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by
AC - GBR271 - Whoosh
B49 - Island Alchemy


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 10:34am
Thanks guys,

I was aware of the Import Duty, but no the VAT situation. That is a real pain in the back side!

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Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 10:54am
Jack,
I had to pay VAT on an RS 200 i imported back in from Jersey a few years back.  The boat had been exported to Jersey as a second hand boat and VAT was paid at point of Invoice when new.  LDC would not provide me with a copy invoice from new to prove VAT had been paid so i had to stump up the VAT to get the boat released.  Its harsh.


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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

a real pain in the back side!

Look on the bright side: with so much missing from your wallet there will be much less discomfort when you sit down...


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 11:07am
Jim: very true.


Ruscoe: yes, harsh.






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Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 16 May 11 at 11:49am
Russ, the rule goes something like this:-
 
If you take a "VAT Paid" boat out of the EU, then assuming you have the VAT certificate, you can bring it back in without paying VAT again.
 
If however you sell the boat whilst outside of the EU, the new owner has to pay the VAT again on re-entry ino the EU based on the purchase price.
 
Many have been caught-out by this in the yachting world.


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12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by
AC - GBR271 - Whoosh
B49 - Island Alchemy


Posted By: Triple Three
Date Posted: 18 May 11 at 1:55pm
Hi,  I sail 3.7 #333 here in New Zealand.

I think that it's fantastic that you lot like our beautiful wooden boats when Yachting NZ prefers your horrible plastic ones!

I've found that around a Windward/Leeward course, I have a slight speed advantage over the the top laser sailors, wheras the top 3.7 sailors will easily leave them behind.  The difference is bigger when it is windy, but in under 5-10 knots the two boats are very similar.  Reaching, the Lasers have no show...

The 3.7 really comes into it's own when the breeze gets up and it is fantastic if you can get a triangle with a long reach.  There are just a few that have the prod and genniker, but we don't see them very often.  The boat is rewarding to sail with just the mainsail and I think in terms of one-design racing, it is more tactical without a genniker.

Here are some photo's of my boat from the recent NZ Nationals, taken by Sean Paterson:








Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 May 11 at 2:02pm
Yachting NZ does seem to have an amazing bias against anything designed in New Zealand, which frankly seems pretty damn silly when you consider how many of the rest of the world's boats get designed by expat Kiwi designers...
I have a suspicion that NZLs Olympic results have declined since YNZ introduced their deiscourage local classes policy, but I could be wrong.


Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 18 May 11 at 10:21pm
I certainly don't have a particularly good vantage point to NZ sailing but it's amazing how small it seems to be outside of Auckland, which is tragic considering how strong NZ has been in the sport.  Old sources tell of a dozen hot Rs turning up to races in places like the cold provincial town of Otago (where a young Master R Coutts was noted as a good P Class sailor) and fleets of a dozen 18s in Canterbury.  Now you'd be struggling to find that many  in the whole country. NZ seems to be a classic case where international performance isn't creating domestic support.

One thing that's interesting, though, is that it seems that some old domestic ODs (Zephrys, Sunbursts, etc) are surviving much better than other sectors.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 10:35am
I have it...



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Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 10:44am
are you sure its in there?

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Everything I say is my opinion, honest


Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 10:45am
Jack,
Looking forward to lining up with you on the start line at Burghfield as soon as my 600 get back from the menders!
 
Cheers
Mark


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RS300, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 10:59am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

are you sure its in there?


I did have a little look inside before I took it home, honest!

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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Neptune



Jack,
Looking forward to lining up with you on the start line at Burghfield as soon as my 600 get back from the menders!
 
Cheers
Mark


Oh no what happened?!

And yes. Give me a few days to work out how to rig and sail it and I look forward to it!
I was quite keen to sail her last night but by the time I got her to the club from Essex it didn't happen.

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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 12:17pm


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Posted By: Foiling_Toff
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 12:19pm
Very nice.  Do you have a py to race it on?


Posted By: Skiffybob
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 12:29pm

Cool beans.

We could have a "Kiwi boat" event and Jim could bring QSJB along.


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12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by
AC - GBR271 - Whoosh
B49 - Island Alchemy


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 May 11 at 12:58pm
Unfortunately QSJB isd off the water for the forseeable future. Major glue failure, trouble getting kahikatea and a lack of time.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 11 Jun 11 at 11:58pm
Sailed her today. As at last my own availability and a sensible first sail wind strength coincided!

She is a joy.

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Posted By: Hughph
Date Posted: 12 Jun 11 at 9:28am
They look like great little boats, I hope you manage to establish a fleet!

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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 27 Jun 11 at 10:44am
For anyone interested here's the latest News from the 3.7 fleet...


uploads/934/3-7News1106_Part1.pdf - 3-7News1106_Part1.pdf

uploads/934/3-7News1106_Part2.pdf - 3-7News1106_Part2.pdf

uploads/934/3-7News1106_Part3.pdf - 3-7News1106_Part3.pdf



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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 12:15pm
Currently forsale on www.Trade Me.co.nz

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?searchType=all&searchString=Farr+3.7&type=Search&generalSearch_keypresses=9&generalSearch_suggested=0 - Secondhand Farr 3.7's

Currently forsale through the Association ( see last pdf above as well ):


#371 Andrew Brown, National Champion boat, top gear andrew@forceracing.co.nz

#323 Steven Andrew, moving, stevenandandrew@gmail.com

#187 Bruce McCallum Auckland (measures) 0211398990 bruce.mcc1@gmail.com

#273 "Old Geezer" John Kennedy Johnk@stonewood.co.nz

#170 Stephen Price phone 03 5776121 Picton/Wellington, adventurenz@xtra.co.nz


New Hulls or Kits:

Andrew Howden - new hull Auckland: a_howden@xtra.co.nz 0274581124

Andrew Howden - frames or girder or partial kitset packages: a_howden@xtra.co.nz 0274581124



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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 30 Jun 11 at 12:29pm
Blimey - all the Kiwi's getting out the class before the Brits arrive ;-)

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RS300, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: O'pen BIC UK
Date Posted: 07 Jul 11 at 11:10pm
Wow... really excited to see one of the best boats I've owned making waves here in the UK. (Not that particular boat mind you, but the class)
I raced one for 3-4 seasons as I moved from the NZ Junior classes and loved every minute of it. Loved the 3.7 so much I bought a second one as my first 'budget' purchase (I was only in my mid-teens at that point) seemed a bit slow.
My second one involved a six hour drive north to Auckland to look it over, shell over the cash, and then a 3.5 hour drive straight down to Rotorua where there was a strong 3.7 presence at the North Island 3.7 Championships. All this in on one day, in a Mark 2 Escort with boat on tow, no radiator core, and several bottles of water to keep it from over-heating.
Those were the days...... lol

Am I right in assuming the 3.7 will based at Burghfield? If so I will have to come and see it for sentimental value next time I'm visiting the Pa-in-law who's a member there.

Enjoy the boat!!!


-------------
Check out the O'pen BIC Website
www.openbic.co.uk

Modern boats for modern kids.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 08 Jul 11 at 1:11pm
Please do come done to BSC, I'd love to chat about the 3.7. Get your take on moving things along in the UK. I take it you have seen my blog on the subject?


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Posted By: Triple Three
Date Posted: 12 Jul 11 at 1:52pm
So, are you bringing 384 back home for Worlds next year?

We can call them that now that we have a boat on the opposite side of the planet.


Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 12 Jul 11 at 5:10pm
No, as many people have discovered, apparently you can't...

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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 12 Jul 11 at 5:33pm
The ISAF are rather anal about such things - maybe the planetary championships?

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 12 Jul 11 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Triple Three

So, are you bringing 384 back home for Worlds next year?We can call them that now that we have a boat on the opposite side of the planet.



Let's wait until we have enough to fill a container, I can't afford to keep a shipping company in business all by my self!

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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
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Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 12 Jul 11 at 9:21pm
Or perhaps the NZ fleet could come over and sell their boats to save on return transport - help establish a UK fleet in a single hit!

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RS300, ex Musto Skiff


Posted By: Triple Three
Date Posted: 13 Jul 11 at 1:53am
I wouldn't dare let you have triple three...  There would be a queue of people wanting to kill me if I did that!


Posted By: tickel
Date Posted: 13 Jul 11 at 8:33am
Could all the Kiwi's bring a container of boats over here, sell them, buy campers and drive home? Is that not what they do?

By the way. For sale. Nice Rondar Contender.

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tickel



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