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Damage during postponement

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12806
Printed Date: 21 Oct 17 at 8:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Damage during postponement
Posted By: piglet
Subject: Damage during postponement
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 1:52pm
Collision with damage whilst under postponement.
Race committee won't accept protest as not actually racing.
Establishing liability for insurance could be tricky.
Advice please.



Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 2:03pm
Appeal - and of course keep them informed that's what you are going to do.
The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near
the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing.
However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one
of these rules, except rule 14 when the incident resulted in injury or
serious damage, or rule 24.1.



Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 2:23pm
Thanks for prompt reply Jim, this is all happening as we speak!
So, your advice is appeal against race committee for not accepting protest?


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by piglet

Thanks for prompt reply Jim, this is all happening as we speak!
So, your advice is appeal against race committee for not accepting protest?

Well, I guess I'd start by politely and quietly asking them to review the RRS, and let them know you will appeal if necessary. As well as the preamble quoted above there's also 63.1

63 HEARINGS
63.1 Requirement for a Hearing
A boat or competitor shall not be penalized without a protest hearing,
except as provided in rules 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 64.3(d), 69, 78.2, A5 and
P2. A decision on redress shall not be made without a hearing. The
protest committee shall hear all protests and requests for redress that
have been delivered to the race office unless it allows a protest or
request to be withdrawn.

(My emphasis.)
My understanding is that they could find, in a hearing, that the RRS don't apply, but they may not refuse to hold a hearing.


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 3:44pm
Thanks Jim, Race committee rescinded and logged protest. Let's see if they throw it out for being outside time limit.


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 9:01pm
Piglet, I assume the original request was in time limit?

It's awful when a RC won't accept a protest (I nearly wrote valid protest - but that's the point: the RC has to accept it and the PC decides if it is valid).


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 9:53pm
The protest was heard but thrown out because the protestor had not hailed protest at the time. The protestors were sitting hove to chatting and having a snack when they were T-boned so hailing didn't occur to them.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 10:03pm
No serious damage then?

61.1a (4) if as a result of the incident a member of either crew is in
danger, or there is injury or serious damage that is
obvious to the boat intending to protest, the requirements
of this rule do not apply to her, but she shall attempt to
inform the other boat within the time limit of rule 61.3.


If there was serious damage then you may wish to remind them of that paragraph, and ask them to consider reopening the hearing under RRS66. You are also entitled to ask for a reopening within 24 hours of hearing the decision.


Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 25 Jul 17 at 11:04pm
And if they won't reopen then appeal.  Zero tolerance for RC protest cop outs! 


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 28 Jul 17 at 12:05pm
FYI outcome of re-hearimg.
PRO viewed the boat himself and declared the damage serious.
Protestee found at fault for collision and was scored a DSQ for previous race as penalty.


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 Jul 17 at 12:26pm
There's a lesson for all of us in this story: when conducting anything to do with protests make sure you have the rule book open and refer to it. Its all too easy to think that you know this stuff and miss something vital, as it would appear this RC and PC did.

Anyway, glad you got the hearing in the end.


Posted By: Tail Gunner
Date Posted: 31 Jul 17 at 1:16pm
Hi All,

Thanks for your help with this one, I don't claim to know all the rules and have definitely learnt something now. Plus a good one for the team to remember should anything like this happen again.
Many thanks



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