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What sit-in no kneeling dinghy

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12088
Printed Date: 21 Nov 17 at 12:00pm
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Topic: What sit-in no kneeling dinghy
Posted By: PATRICKCR
Subject: What sit-in no kneeling dinghy
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 1:28pm

Hi All ,

 

I wondered if I could get some advice please from the good people on here.

 
I passed my RYA 1 & 2 last year and have spent the year sporadically sailing on hire dinghy’s when work permitted, on inland ex gravel pits / lakes mainly on Topaz’s, which are fun if the wind blows and I can sit out and hike but awful when its marginal weather….because I have to keep my ­15 Stone well inboard and I’m typically having to kneel down quite forward and central in the boat to maintain any stability.

 

What I have come to realise is that , I like two very different forms of sailing !

 

o   I like to go fast in strong wind and can see that possible boats like Vareo, Supernova and Solo would fit the bill for that ( Also want a fairly high boom ) and as I’ll be sat out all the time and shouldn’t have to do any kneeling.

 

o   …but for light wind pottering days …I want a ‘sit in’ boat - not something I have to kneel in at all.

 

My ideal boat (and probably a lot of other peoples) would have a deep hull so I don’t have to sit with my knees halfway up my chest , high boom,  no kneeling in light winds , easy enough to manhandle on my own on the shore (pretty strong) and being a Billy no mates I have no requirement to carry additional crew J

 

Is it possible to combine the two types of sailing in one boat or should I resign myself to the fact there is no single boat that will fulfil my requirements and look for two different boats.? (Secondhand)

 

Either way has anybody got any ideas on boats ? …I have bizarrely been looking at miracles, even Hadrons wondering if that’s an light wind option ..fact is I don’t have enough experience to know. So what say you good people ?

 

Ps I don’t have any aversion to varnishing and woodworking either!

 

All suggestions appreciated.

 
Patrick



Replies:
Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 3:29pm
miracle is not a bad option plus gives you the option of taking a pal with you
for single handers,  solo would be a logical choice, or maybe a deep cockpit (JJ boats) phantom? I would avoid the vareo if you are averse to kneeling


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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 3:39pm
I guess the older designs have deeper more comfortable cockpits. JJ Phantoms look nice, what is an OK like? 


Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 4:35pm
Its a strange thing, but the boats with deeper cockpits also seem to be the ones with excessively low booms.


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 5:33pm
Weta

edit: pic added
 




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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 6:14pm
LOL Very true JimC LOL good one.

However our OP was talking about sitting vs kneeling. Most dinghies will require a duck to pass the boom, some more duckling than daddy drake tis true. There are two different relative distances involved, floor to boom and floor to bum. A tight floor to boom may require some momentary folding, whereas with a tight floor to bum perch the pain is permanent.




Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 20 Jul 15 at 8:53pm
Hi guys, thanks for the responses.

The boom height I can compromise on a bit on , do different is correct I am really looking for a decent bum to floor measurement first followed by a boom to floor that doesn't make me kiss the floor every tack.


The lake is fairly small so as much as the weta does appeal I don't think it's going to fit the bill.:(

Do you think it's viable to sail a miracle singlehanded ? Would it be main only ? I ve googled it but can't find much. could i improve things with self tacking jib maybe? Would launching or recovery be a big issue ? I quite like the look of them :)

Solo ..again from a position of never sailing one .....is the centre casing a big deal ? Is the cockpit a proper sit in ? Can I get three seated sofa either side :)

The phantom cockpit seems quite deep , do JJ phantoms have a deeper cockpit than regular phantoms ? Certainly interesting boat I hadn't even considered.



Patrick


Posted By: NeilB-Phantom
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 2:38am
In a regular Phantom you will definitely end up kneeling downwind in the light stuff, even medium airs on a dead run

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Phantom 1384
Dazcat D995


Posted By: ChrisB14
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 10:57am
Never having sailed one (sadly), it does sound like the Hadron is what the OP is looking for. Without a real second hand market it would mean putting down a major sum or building one yourself, though.

http://www.hadrondinghy.com/


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B14 GBR 748 Bullet B
In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)


Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 12:08pm
Ok's have a very low boom.
You need something with a cross thwart so when you are in the middle you are still sitting.
Not all Phantoms have thwarts, Solo's do and Miracles do. A small pond club near me race Miracles S/Hded which I think is all wrong buy heyho, not my club.
Also if you relatively new to it all a Phantom might be a bit fast reacting if there is any wind swirling round your gravel pit.
I vote Solo (yuk).


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 4:11pm
Firefly Lamp Smile ?

Singlehanded Olympic Class.

Just saying. 




Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 4:56pm
K1

[TUBE]xDn4Jxvb820[/TUBE]



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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 7:18pm
Do try the Firefly. I regularly sailed one single handed, with jib. Bit of a tacking technique to learn, but easy enough with a bit of practice.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 21 Jul 15 at 11:40pm
Miracle should be no problem singlehanded using both sails.  If concerned, start with just the main and add the jib later; self-tacker not required.

More stable than a Firefly, more room, lighter to manoeuvre onshore; just a tad slower.

Glassfibre Miracles are relatively rare, however, and older examples are not as quick as the wooden boats.


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http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class


Posted By: catmandoo
Date Posted: 22 Jul 15 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Miracle should be no problem singlehanded using both sails.  If concerned, start with just the main and add the jib later; self-tacker not required.

More stable than a Firefly, more room, lighter to manoeuvre onshore; just a tad slower.

Glassfibre Miracles are relatively rare, however, and older examples are not as quick as the wooden boats.

My finlaw sailed  a miracle singlehanded into his eighties , before moving on to challengers, he was neither agile nor light , but loved it  


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Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 22 Jul 15 at 9:43pm
Hi all ,

Ha ha I guess there is hope for me yet if you're finlaw could sail a miracle into his eighties ....although when you're reading about a coast guard rescue of a capsized miracle dinghy sailor from a tiny inland puddle I will prove that wrong. :)

Hadn't even heard of a firefly so will take a look at that as well. K1 looks great but too expensive , but love you the idea of it.

The hadron does tick the boxes for me in terms of looks ...beautiful thing .. I must be middle aged now as I have developed an involuntary 'uuu' sound that escapes from my mouth when I see shiny varnished decks like on a Merlin rocket( alas definitely not suitable)

Thanks for your advice all

Patrick


Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 23 Jul 15 at 10:57am
Originally posted by PATRICKCR

I have developed an involuntary 'uuu' sound that escapes from my mouth when I see shiny varnished decks like on a Merlin rocket( alas definitely not suitable)

Dude you need a doctor.. quick! It could be.. http://we-wood.us/pages/wood-allergy" rel="nofollow - A debilitating disease you will end up in a CVDRA care home in your socks in sandals, watery eyes squinting through overgrown eyelashes, dribbling down the front of your anorak....


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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Jul 15 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Woodburner


Originally posted by PATRICKCR

I have developed an involuntary 'uuu' sound that escapes from my mouth when I see shiny varnished decks like on a Merlin rocket( alas definitely not suitable)

Dude you need a doctor.. quick! It could be.. http://we-wood.us/pages/wood-allergy" rel="nofollow - A debilitating disease you will end up in a CVDRA care home in your socks in sandals, watery eyes squinting through overgrown eyelashes, dribbling down the front of your anorak....


Such a narrow existence you lead, WB. Grey plastic is very, very boring.

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Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Leader, Topper 44496, yellow Minisail


Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 23 Jul 15 at 6:12pm
Standing up , clearing my throat .....ahemmmm

"hello everyone , ummm I , errr ...my name is Patrick and I actually enjoy sanding and varnishing ...there I said it" ...please be supportive , I can't help it if I think a 10 coat Epifanes varnish finish just looks like liquid honey.

:) 

Now to be fair I should ask if my budget is about 1-1.5K for this light wind lovely ... any particular manufacturers of said Miracles or solos I should look out for ?  

Anyway I'm off to buy some sandals and a subscription to classic boats..





Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 23 Jul 15 at 6:19pm
LOL , I misread that first as CADRA ....and thought ...I don't mind a good ale especially at a Steam Engine Rally :)

Would it help redeem myself at all if I said I also occasionally like to go fast on small tea trays with a big bed sheet on strings blowing in the wind . 


Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 10:05am
Patrick, best place to look for old wooden Solos is the Solo Class website http://www.solosailing.org.uk/fs/fs_list.asp

IMHO the age and condition of a wooden hull and how "modern" the rig is, is more important than the builder given your budget.


Posted By: Woodburner
Date Posted: 24 Jul 15 at 2:08pm
Patrick I know somebody who can help you with those tea trays, I do a very nice one for fourteen hundred quid, all carbon..
http://www.carved.de/img/products/imperatorgoldeditionse//imperatorgoldeditionse_t.png" rel="nofollow - more here

It could help you with your wood addiction problem (You're in good company here though it's like a self help group, loads of wood botherers) Wink


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Posted By: ajbaldwin
Date Posted: 27 Jul 15 at 10:07pm
Hi Patrick
 
Have you tried a Vareo out?  I am 6 foot 2 and 15 stone and I don't really do a lot of kneeling.  Sure if you don't have the kite up downwind you will have to but the main point of a vareo is the down wind blast. The slope of the boom is also handy and if you are caught in a drifter I usually stand up anyway.  Might be worth trying one


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Yorkshire Dales SC
Vareo 505


Posted By: Keith_Callaghan
Date Posted: 26 Aug 15 at 2:45pm
Hello Patrick, your quest for a singlehander that is 'user-friendly' is a common one, but in a crowded market it is nonetheless difficult to find a singlehander that meets your needs. You have mentioned my HADRON, which I am sure would suit you very well. Unfortunately, there are few examples around, and none at the price that you are prepared to pay. If you want to shell out for a new dinghy, then a carbon/aramid/epoxy/foam composite version of the Hadron will soon be available, for less than the price of a Phantom or Blaze.
But with your limited budget, may I suggest that you look for a HARRIER? This is the singlehander that I designed in 1972, and is a direct ancestor of the HADRON. See http://www.bluelightning.co.uk/Harrier/harrier1.htm. About 70 Harriers were built - in solid GRP, so they have lasted very well. You will occasionally see one for sale, though they are much sought after. The price is generally just a few hundred quid. Michael McNamara has a Harrier, which he sails every week at his local club. So if it's good enough for him....


Posted By: gbr1918
Date Posted: 27 Oct 15 at 8:48am
OKs are a ton of fun and you can sit on the mainsheet traveller in light weather.  Also, they've been around forever and you can pick up old-but-sound boats for not too much money.  They are pretty demanding, though.  I've got a feeling that for a guy at your level it'd be a pretty steep learning curve and you could find yourself doing a bit of swimming!Wink
Dave


Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 31 Oct 15 at 7:10pm
Having just bought an OK as my midweek and winter weapon I'd say they are great boats. I wouldn't say they were demanding, just a bit different to the norm.

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Graduate 2928
OK 2071


Posted By: RickHough
Date Posted: 12 Jan 16 at 2:11pm
May I recommend a Comet? Once you find the balance points they are light, easy to handle in and out of the water, have lots of clubs around the country who race them and are really well built. Your budget would buy a nice one.

You can carry a passenger and the cockpit is nice and deep - they can be tricky down wind but plane easily and have wonderful manners. They only weigh 46kg so can be easily car topped.


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Comet 236


Posted By: Jamesr
Date Posted: 12 Aug 16 at 11:30am

Hello Patrickcr

Im in a similar position to you. Nice to have a boat with a bit of speed but Im inland where there is not much wind and kneeling in the middle of my Topper Topaz is no fun.

What did you get in the end?




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