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2013 racing rules

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    Posted: 24 Oct 12 at 2:45pm
Last night at the London Corinthian Sailing Club in Hammersmith Chris Simon gave his first talk on the new 2013 racing rules. Mostly rule tidying but a few changes (e.g. trash and batten popping allowed. It was an excellent talky - highly recommended if you get a chance - he is going to a number of Thames valley clubs.

Only 2 months left to exploit the old loopholes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by x1testpilot

e.g. trash (edit NOT ALLOWED) and batten popping allowed. 
 
What did he have to say about the new 'Trash' rule.
I note there is no clear definition of what constitues 'Trash'.
Woe betide that careless round the world crew member that discards an apple core over the side in the middle of the  Southern Ocean!
Don't get me wrong, I am all for being a clean and responsible sport, just wondering how it will be enforced, after all what is one persons trash is anothers treasure...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 3:22pm
RRS
Terminology A term used in the sense stated in the Definitions is printed in italics or, in preambles, in bold italics (for example, racing and racing). ‘Racing rule’ means a rule in The Racing Rules of Sailing. ‘Boat’ means a sailboat and the crew on board; ‘vessel’ means any boat or ship. ‘Race committee’ includes any person or committee performing a race committee function. A ‘change’ to a rule includes an addition to it or deletion of all or part of it. ‘National authority’ means an ISAF member national authority. Other words and terms are used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical or general use.

noun [mass noun]

1 chiefly North American waste material; refuse:
the subway entrance was blocked with trash

cultural items, ideas, or objects of poor quality:
if they read at all, they read trash

2 North American a person or people regarded as being of very low social standing:
clubs patronized by rock trash

3 (also cane trash) West Indian the leaves, tops, and crushed stems of sugar cane, used as fuel.


Edited by Presuming Ed - 25 Oct 12 at 3:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed


noun [mass noun]
 
 
Thanks Ed,
 
As I said, or to quote a well known phrase 'what is one persons trash, is another persons treasure'
It is a rather indescript term, which can be interpreted in any way you wish.
At one end of the scale, something deliberately jettisoned/discharged overboard which could be enviromentally harmful and could be solid, liquid or indeed gaseos at ambient temperature, versus the realistic example which I gave in my previous post...
I will be curious to hear the first case against a competitor, and what penalty/sanction can be applied.
Does it only apply whilst 'racing', or more likely be a breach whilst sitting in your Laser between races when you discard your Mars* bar wrapper over the side?
 
*Other popular confectionary is also available at your local stockist.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 7:56pm
I suspect thatmany SIs will allow for alternative penalties for breaches of this rule. As it is written the debris often found floating round a capsized boat may well be considered as trash.

It will be interesting to see how the same principle is applied to coaches, official boats etc. Asa judge or umpire I am always very careful not to let any rubbish fall overboard.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 8:00pm
Part 4 rules apply only to boats racing. However, rule 55 applies at all times when boats are on the water.

55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 12 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Part 4 rules apply only to boats racing. However, rule 55 applies at all times when boats are on the water.

55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.

My emphasis.  

And therefore while a capsize might lead to trash in the water it would not be punishable...nor presumably would your Mars Bar blowing away in a F6.

And come to that what about a defence that you were cleaning the wrapper before stuffing it in your PDF, and when the boat lurched on the wave I dropped it...

Intentaion is hard to prove (unless you're an offshore yacht caught dropping a bin bag in) (although even then - whoops we slipped at the stern locker and over it went.

Any rule which relies on intent has got to be tricky.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 12 at 6:24am
Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Part 4 rules apply only to boats racing. However, rule 55 applies at all times when boats are on the water.

55 TRASH DISPOSAL
A competitor shall not intentionally put trash in the water.

My emphasis.  

And therefore while a capsize might lead to trash in the water it would not be punishable...nor presumably would your Mars Bar blowing away in a F6.

And come to that what about a defence that you were cleaning the wrapper before stuffing it in your PDF, and when the boat lurched on the wave I dropped it...

Intentaion is hard to prove (unless you're an offshore yacht caught dropping a bin bag in) (although even then - whoops we slipped at the stern locker and over it went.

Any rule which relies on intent has got to be tricky.
 
Indeed, and the bit about 'at all times when boats are on the water'
It doesn't even say that the competitor themselves must be afloat or on their boat at the time...
Saturday night, Cowes week, apres sail, drop an empty beer can off the quayside...
I can imagine a trash rule like that in motor racing. Lewis Hamilton being penalised 5 places on the grid because Nicole dropped a fag end out the window at the lights on Fulham high st...


Edited by Andymac - 26 Oct 12 at 6:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 12 at 7:07am
But ir's a good sign that this is all we can fiind to moan about...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote x1testpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 12 at 12:29pm
Chris seemed to think even trowing a dead match overboard could count - so smokers beware!
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