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Being Daft in Handicap Races

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by olly_love

the boat is about 2.5m wide, which always make it interesting around marks, and i think al means because its a bagged kite it takes alittle longer to get it round
 
The width I get...the bagging of the kite should be immaterial...Mark room is room to sail to the mark then proper course at the mark.... If they are still frantically bagging when they should be rounding up that is a case for them to be protested....
 ...


Dropping and bagging the kite is part of rounding the mark, they are entitled to room to do it in a 'seamanlike manner', sailing their proper course?
 
Correct but they must still round up as soon as they can and not reach off while the crew still bags...
 
In any case tactically (unless you are in another B14 or something of similar speed) you are going to want to get away as soon as you can to clear your air, hence why tacking away might be a better option rather than whinge about their rounding skills and getting stuck under them for the first part of the beat...
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 5:22pm
If you pass to close to windward in a large sailed boat you are almost always going to get luffed into the next county because

1.1 It encourages you to overtake to leeward like a gentleman next time 1.2 Its just plain fun to do
and
1.3 Its good practice if you are ever in that situation with a minute of the pursuit race left

And if you are sailing just for giggles, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that,
2.1 should you be aggressively taking the wind of people who might not be sailing for giggles
and
2.2 why shouldn't someone else get their giggles by luffing you into Staffordshire?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Little Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by JimC

If you pass to close to windward in a large sailed boat you are almost always going to get luffed into the next county because

1.1 It encourages you to overtake to leeward like a gentleman next time 1.2 Its just plain fun to do
and
1.3 Its good practice if you are ever in that situation with a minute of the pursuit race left

And if you are sailing just for giggles, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that,
2.1 should you be aggressively taking the wind of people who might not be sailing for giggles
and
2.2 why shouldn't someone else get their giggles by luffing you into Staffordshire?
 
+1
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 5:36pm
As one of the smallest sails on the water in mixed racing (radial) if something is going to overtake fast then fine, go whichever side you like.  If you are going to overtake slowly expect to be luffed massively.  I try to stay high in mixed fleets to encourage leeward passes anyway.  If I go low as suggested by someone else above assy boats just tend to bear down on me anyway. 
 
At Draycote everything overtook slowly due to the lack of wind at times and I just stop whenever I get overtaken to windward whereas I doubt most of the larger boats would even notice my wind shadow.  I actually had to get out of my boat on one reach as was happily hiking and sailing at speed until a couple of larger boats went high and I lost all wind and only stopped the boat capsizing to windward by climbing out!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 6:37pm
its a tactical sport. That's why its fun. We get OK's and RS400's trying to cover us and that just adds to the enjoyment (imho). i wouldn't expect someone in a slower boat to move over and sure as hell i wouldn't just move over for a faster boat! after all it is a race. isn't it?....  Confused

Edited by gbrspratt - 27 Feb 12 at 6:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 7:05pm
Your not in control of what the other boat does, you can only control where your boat goes so concentrate on that. Plan early to get high if thats where you want to go.

Or just get faster boat!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 7:12pm
It is much more effective to luff whilst the fast boat still has a chance to duck below, but if they are too stupid to take the hint, then hard luck, I say. Might even get lucky and they tip it in when luffing up with their stupidly large kite...
It could well be that stopping them overtaking quickly at the beginning of a race (why else are they behind?) could make the difference between beating them or not on handicap at the end. A fast boat in clear wind can soon get an enormous lead.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 7:25pm
+1 on the plan early message, it's the best way to avoid issues, I remember getting very grumpy about this back in the i14 days, but you know, looking back afterwards we had plenty of time (and speed mostly) to do something different... and should have done.  Always keep an eye out for Furballers and Lazy-ers though, renowned luffers the lot of them  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

Your not in control of what the other boat does, you can only control where your boat goes so concentrate on that. Plan early to get high if thats where you want to go.
Or just get faster boat!


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 8:29pm
1.  If you're going to go to windward you need a passing lane.
2.  If you're not then do a low high instead, with enough separation to harden up through the wind shadow.
3.  As the slower boat you need to set out your stall.  As some say - set up high early to deny a passing lane.
4.  Manage the faster boat early.  Communicate the fact that you will luff, coax/coach them below.  In my J24 days I used to have the following French phrase ready for Spi Ouest "Si vous allez en haut on vous prendera a Chine!"  That was often effective (not least because it tended to shock a dose of the slows into the perfidious frenchmen).
5.  If they won't listen then "reinforce the message with a big luff" - so that the fast boat is discouraged from doing it again.

As for Mark Room I watched a number of B14s pushing their luck at the port hand leeward mark, calling starboard on boats which were clear ahead at the zone (not room which shows either ignorance or bullying).  Rule infringements weren't confined to the Bs - but from what I saw they were the most gratuitous examples.
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