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Being Daft in Handicap Races

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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Being Daft in Handicap Races
    Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:00pm
sort of related to the "match racing" thread, but not quite.
 
We were purely sailing the Dash for giggles, even the good b14s stood no chance and we're not good. Still, it does irritate a little when people do deliberately daft things.
 
One that happened a couple of times was on the reach legs. Our spinnaker isn't exactly cut for reaching. So they were tricky legs. We'd come up behind a 400 (or other, but one incident that stuck in the mind was with a 400- similar things happened with furballs, Ospreys etc) that's able to hold its kite higher. We'd be unable to get under to leeward, as passing close we didn't have enough extra mast height, and passing wide we'd go too far down wind. We couldn't though pass above, as at the first hint of overlap they'd start luffing. They'd luff so much that it was actually hurting their progress- much more than simply letting us ghost past them would. Eventually there was a slight shift that allowed us to climb up, over and round them- but in all this the 400 had probabbly been hurt just as much as we had.
 
Is this just the sort of thing whereby you need to seek the individuals out in the bar later on and explain gently to them why it isn't really on in a handicap race and that it isn't healthy for their race position? If it was the dying minutes of the pursuit race I'd have no complaints. Do we need an etiquette guide for when multiple, very different classes, clash?
 
(see also: Fireballs needing to understand that a B14 requires 2 1/1 times the mark room that a Fireball would require- this from one of the other Bs)
-_
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:05pm
i have had this sort of thing in our local mid week handcap series - you can't pass to windward or to leeward even though you are (potentially) quicker.  Luffing seems to add more pleasure for those who got a chance to do it - odd
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Post Options Post Options   Quote olly_love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:06pm
I have had that in the B and other big kite boats before where people dont shout stbd until the last second and expect you to have seen them,

but i agree al people think that they are just racing the people around them,
if somone wants to roll over me in a quicker boat i would let them and try to protect my wind by going lower
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:15pm

I dont get why you say they require 2.5 times the amount of Mark room.

I get the boat is wider and perhaps the transom swings out as the boat turns but 2.5 tmes is a lot from 1 class to another.
 
As for not hollering starboard until the last second...IMO that is too bad on the port boat as there is no requirement to hail (whether there should be is another debate). The onus is on both boats to keep a proper look out. The ROW boat is not required to do anything until it is clear that the non-ROW boat is going to break the rules.
 
At events like the 'Dash you are bringing together people who may have never raced against something to wide as a B14 so a little common sense needs to prevail and boats need to be extra vigilant (IMO).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:16pm
It's always going to be a problem when you have 70+ boats in a race that lasts less than an hour.
The 400 is entitled to defend his clear wind, to the extent of the rules. You have the options to pass wider to windward or to leeward. The fact that you struggle to overtake to leeward is really not the 400's problem is it?
Such is handicap racing.
Particularly when it's organised such that the fast boats have to overtake the slow ones.

Who is being daft?
Possibly either the organisers or the B14 sailor who expects a clear run in a 70 boat race on a dried up puddle? Who thinks he has a right to give slower boats his windshadow as he overtakes close to windward?

Just putting another slant on it. Personally I'd have just covered the other 400's and the Merlins and let you go, unless you were influencing my position against those boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote olly_love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:17pm
the boat is about 2.5m wide, which always make it interesting around marks, and i think al means because its a bagged kite it takes alittle longer to get it round
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by olly_love

the boat is about 2.5m wide, which always make it interesting around marks, and i think al means because its a bagged kite it takes alittle longer to get it round
 
The width I get...the bagging of the kite should be immaterial...Mark room is room to sail to the mark then proper course at the mark.... If they are still frantically bagging when they should be rounding up that is a case for them to be protested....
 
But we are picking holes here..... I would try to slow down and sneak up inside them so I could tack away and try to clear my air.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Just putting another slant on it. Personally I'd have just covered the other 400's and the Merlins and let you go, unless you were influencing my position against those boats.
I totally agree with you- yes, the luffing is within the rules, but a momentary loss of wind versus stuffing yourself up to the detriment of racing against boats that can actually beat you is silly. If I was in the 400 I would let the faster boat pass, hoping that they did so quickly and smoothly.
-_
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by olly_love

the boat is about 2.5m wide, which always make it interesting around marks, and i think al means because its a bagged kite it takes alittle longer to get it round
 
The width I get...the bagging of the kite should be immaterial...Mark room is room to sail to the mark then proper course at the mark.... If they are still frantically bagging when they should be rounding up that is a case for them to be protested....
 ...


Dropping and bagging the kite is part of rounding the mark, they are entitled to room to do it in a 'seamanlike manner', sailing their proper course?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 12 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by olly_love

the boat is about 2.5m wide,....


I think you've lost a bit, the one in my shed is a tad over 3m with the wings on!
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