J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
List classes of boat for sale |
Handicap racing now pointless? |
Post Reply | Page <1 678910 14> |
Author | ||
Jack Sparrow
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2965 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Handicap racing now pointless? Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:03pm |
|
Yep I'd have been happy with that. And it's why Piers sailed the Farr as he has a more recent and reliable set of sailing results than me. I now find it a lot harder to work out whether 1039 is accurate or not. |
||
rogue
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:12pm | |
nice ideas, but sadly not going to happen as the RYA approach the whole PY programme from a different point of view. The PY system is a product for sailing clubs- not classes, not manufacturers, not individual members or race committees. They will only work with the data clubs provide via the returns system (favouring the online returns where possible) and will not work with the information provided by class associations, even if you extended this to offer a class-owned demo boat to an impartial sailor for independent assessment. having been through the exercise of working on behalf of newly established class to better understand how the manufacturers number dropped so dramatically with the first issue of the official EN, I can assure you the mindset at the RYA is unlikely to change- PY is a product for clubs, if you want to influence the ratings of any given class then there is only one way to do it- race it more at the clubs that bother to return data, ideally via the online returns system. As I understand it, the SJ series doesn't even figure in the quantitive analysis, however I guess the PYAG must look at it for their final deliberations before the Dinghy Exhibition. http://rs100sailing.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/joint-statement-from-the-rya-rs-racing-re-rs100-pn/ |
||
Jon711
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:18pm | |
So Rogue, no easy answer then really.....
Jon |
||
Blaze 711
|
||
r2d2
Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:19pm | |
what rogue says above (that the RYA PY system works only for clubs and not sailors more generally, and that they can be inflexible and lack transparency) is one of the main reasons I am not an RYA member
Edited by r2d2 - 11 Jan 12 at 2:23pm |
||
Jon711
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:22pm | |
Then you can not complain about the system, if you do not support,or even help fund it.... Having been a member since 1984, I possibly have supported the system better than you, and while it is not perfect, with out the RYA, and the support and funding from members, there would not even be a PY system.. jon |
||
Blaze 711
|
||
r2d2
Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:24pm | |
I used to be a member a long time ago - that just lapsed, and I would consider joining again - but the tranparency of the system is a real show stopper for me
|
||
Jon711
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:27pm | |
You are not going to change it from the outside... Jon |
||
Blaze 711
|
||
rogue
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:30pm | |
Well of course there is... if we dump the 'them and us' crap, we'd actually see the guys running the sailjuice series are actually blokes n' birds just like us lot. We'd also see that they're progressive enough to make changes to the handicaps when considering the local waters and prevailing conditions experienced, something the majority of us would love to happen at our own clubs. They've applied a conservative approach to new class entrants, which I think is laudable as it maintains the status quo for the majority and doesn't offer the new entrant an easy win to undermine the overall reputation of the event. Do remember it wasn't so long ago that Graham Vials cleaned up at the BM but his result didn't count as foilers weren't technically permitted- this sh*t is a thing of the past and they are much more inclusive now. Perhaps if the minority classes give them such a load of sh*t they'll back track, maybe even restrict the types of boats entered. Do remember a good sailor in a good new boat can still do well irrespective of a conservative handicap... it wasn't so long ago this forum had the kleenex out for Danny Boy and his 'Punk' with its wishbone boom was it? Perhaps communication could be better about the handicapping adjustments, but to a large extent I agree with Jim, any reduction will be considered punitive and result in time-consuming rounds of questioning and email dialogue. Why bother.... they've got more patience than I'd have that's for sure. From a personal point of view, not going to the GGP and Stevie Nicks has been the first time I've actually felt like I'm missing out from not dinghy sailing currently- and to be honest, the fact that they are locally adjusting, running progressive courses and opening up the racing to all sorts of classes only makes that feeling stronger. If you could get that quality of sailing in a club race, I sh*t-you-not sailing would be a truly awesome sport. Edited by rogue - 11 Jan 12 at 2:34pm |
||
r2d2
Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:31pm | |
No probably not. I do actually support the idea of the handicapping system they use in general terms(with all its limitatiions etc), but if they are not going to be open about how the handicaps are derived, and what's more those handicaps (or slightly adjusted versions of them) are imposed on sailors whether RYA members or not, then I cant really support them as an outfit
|
||
Jon711
Far too distracted from work Joined: 04 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 465 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jan 12 at 2:39pm | |
Rogue,
I see your point, but feel like I want to disagree. Just can not think of a reason! . My gut feel is just that playing around with handicaps, with no justification, and no backup evidence to do so, is a very slippery slope, and one we should not be embarking on. If plod stopped you in your car, claiming you were doing 100mph, when you dashboard was showing 50mph, you would ask for evidence... That is all that is being asked for here... Jon |
||
Blaze 711
|
||
Post Reply | Page <1 678910 14> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |