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Port and starboard on a dead run

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by gordon

Don't most "tall ships" have a fore and aft sail on the mizzen mast?

Most surviving ones do, but according to the definition it would have no more significance than the mizzen sail on a ketch does: its the mainsail that counts...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 5:42pm
At this point normal procedure would be to request an interpretation of the rules either from RYA or ISAF.

In the unlikely event that this came before a PC I would probably argue that as the mainsail was a square sail, and thus did not clearly indicate which tack the boat was on then it could be deemed that the mainsail was on the same tack as the largest fore and aft sail...

An interesting point.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 5:49pm
Do tall ships sail by the lee with any regularity?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 8:26pm
that's rather what we're saying- there isn't such a thing as sailing by the lee with square sails. They don't gybe.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 11:18pm

I believe there has been an easy way of settling the argument, which has been used for many centuries;

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 12 at 11:47pm
I've posted the square rig conundrum on SA, and am just sitting back with a glass of good malt and some popcorn...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 12 at 8:40am

I wasn't entirely surprised, on looking at the STI 'Tall ships race' rules to find that they operate under the COLREGS. The event isn't so much a 'race' in the same context as say the Americas Cup, and isn't under the auspices of the ISAF.  http://www.sailtraininginternational.org/_uploads/documents/CaptainsPage/RSR2011Web2.pdf



Edited by Andymac - 08 Jan 12 at 8:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 12 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by alstorer

that's rather what we're saying- there isn't such a thing as sailing by the lee with square sails. They don't gybe.


Missed this answer when this thread was happening. Surely they bring the yards round a certain amount, so if the wind was blowing across from the other side, without them moving them round, they would be sailing by the lee?

Do they still settle protests in the tall ships race using the method pictured above? And can we add it to Trireme racing at the Olympics?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 12 at 12:50pm
If the yards aren't braced round for a new course or significant change in wind direction the sails will become backed.  The concept of sailing by the lee makes no sense.  The sails are backed deliberately when tacking and heaving to, to gybe they are not backed which is why a square rigger is at more risk  of losing control (stopping and going backwards) during a tack than a gybe.  All the yards can be controlled independently to each other so some sails can be backed whilst others are not.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 12 at 2:19pm
FWIW Gordon:
 
Barque, Barquentine, Brig, Brigantine, Schooners all had fore and aft sails of some sort so presumeably could sail by the lee. Whether they would want to is another matter, an accidental gybe would be disasterous I would have thought. Most tall ships fit into these categories but there are some "fully rigged" with all square sails. 
 
The square sails would have been trimed as we now trim the spinnaker, i.e. front edge on the point of curling unless going dead down wind.
 
Still currently building a model of the Golden Hind, this had 2 square rigged masts and one fore and aft. Now categorised as a Barque.


Edited by GK.LaserII - 23 Feb 12 at 2:33pm
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