New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: for 2 to 1 or not 2 to 1
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

for 2 to 1 or not 2 to 1

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Alto-Tim View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 23 Jun 11
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
Post Options Post Options   Quote Alto-Tim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: for 2 to 1 or not 2 to 1
    Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 7:07pm
Question:
On a 2 to one main halyard, what are the benefits?

for
1-   you have a 2 to one purchase.
2-  it is easier to hoist the mainsail.
3-  less compression force within the mast.

against
1-  a lot more rope in the boat.
2-  considerably harder to drop as due to the length of the rope it gets tangled easier.
3-  more expensive, plus more weight.

don't knows
1) because there is only an inch of rope from the shackle, does this make it 2 to 1?
2) if you use good quality halyard the mainsail should not drop down the track?.
3) has anyone had problems with a two to one halyard breaking around the shackle area at the top of the mast?
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Online
Posts: 5476
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 7:42pm
1) Even if there was 1mm of rope it would still be 2:1.
2) If the rope stretches it stretches. If you use decent rope it shouldn't drop anyway.
3) Any rope will go if you lead it over sharp edges or otherwise mistreat it. An issues with the 2:1 is that the end is rarely inspected.
Back to Top
olly_love View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1145
Post Options Post Options   Quote olly_love Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 7:43pm
best thing to do is to make the rope thicker where it goes over the shackle, we have a removable tail to our halyard so less rope
TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala


Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1733
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 9:11pm
I have never been sold on the idea. For one most sails are generally cut assuming a given mast bend profile. By reducing the compression force you reduce mast bend and may find the mainsail doesnt match the mast! The shackle at the top prevents you from ever getting the main fully up to the top of the mast. On boats eith measurement bands this isnt normally a problem, but on SMODs it generally pays to get the main right to the top.
Looking at the mechanical advantage, you only have 2:1 while the halyard turns through 180. But when it is fully tensioned the angle is significantly reduced. Assuming you really tension the halyard, you'll probably end up with someone appraching 90 and hence much of the claimed advantage is lost.

The extra halyard length is expensive and a pain to store in the boat, and makes dropping the main on a lee shore a bigger pain due to having to strighten out kinks and knots.

I always use a 4mm kevlar halyard 1:1. The other option is to use a halyard lock at the top of the mast like the OKs or tip the boat a la Cherubs and tie it off at the top!
Back to Top
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 539
Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 9:30pm
I found  2:1 halyard made a massive differance to the feel of the boat and the respose on the mast. On a carbon mast i think it's a must.
 
I now have a halyard lock. I didn't notice a huge differance from the 2:1 initially, but i am using more kicker than i ever have before, so something is going on!
Back to Top
timeintheboat View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 01 Feb 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 615
Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 10:48pm
It seems the norm of RS400s - why is that?
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
Back to Top
Skiffman View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 27 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 291
Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 11 at 11:22pm
Not to give all the secrets away but for a start rope shackles are a very good replacement for your normal shackles. 

The main will only come down due to the rope not being good enough, never a problem in the 49er. Best stuff is SK78 Max by Marlow, it will not creep or stretch under the loads we put on it in our 49er. 

As for the compression on the mast, I think this is down to the individual boats/masts. Yes it does compress the mast less but do you want less compression? 

We have the option of 1:1 or 2:1 in the 49er and most people use 2:1 and rope shackles. Just try both and see what you like but the main should always be at the top and never pull down whichever way you decide.
49er GBR5

teamfletcherandsign.co.uk
Team Fletcher and Sign campaign site
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom/Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4021
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 11 at 8:48am
Originally posted by Alto-Tim


3) has anyone had problems with a two to one halyard breaking around the shackle area at the top of the mast?

Yep, mine went at the head of the Alto last week, I've just replaced it spent all saturday jiggling a bunch of bolts on the end of whipping twine which ended up with me having to abandon one of them at the bottom of the mast. It was crap halyard material anyway and nearly four years old, don't know what it is about boat builders and crap rope, it was stretchy, quite smooth so didn't cleat off properly, kept slipping, exactly the same stuff I got supplied with my RS500. It must be a price thing. I've replaced it with 4mm braided Marlowe stuff we use for downhauls, it cleats off better.

No idea what you mean re 2.1 how else do other systems haul a sail up the mast from down below?
Back to Top
AlexM View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Jan 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 857
Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 11 at 9:55am
[/QUOTE]
No idea what you mean re 2.1 how else do other systems haul a sail up the mast from down below?
[/QUOTE]
One end on the halyard is fixed at the top of the mast then goes thro eye/shackle on the top of the sail and then goes down the mast
Back to Top
alstorer View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 07
Location: Cambridge
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2899
Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 11 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.


No idea what you mean re 2.1 how else do other systems haul a sail up the mast from down below?
1:1 halyard ties/shackles/otherwise attaches to the headboard of the sail. Goes up over a pulley/block at the top of the mast, and then back down to the bottom to be secured. Requires a halyard length approx twice the height of the mast
2:1 halyard is seured to the top of the the mast. Runs through a shackle that attaches to the headboard, back up to the top of the mast and back down. Requires a halyard length approx three times the height of the mast.
(a 1:2 spinnaker halyard, as found on some boats, would blow your mind. Also, it'd REALLY f*** you off if a rope snapped)
-_
Al
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz