New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Start Tactics: How do I not get stuffed?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Start Tactics: How do I not get stuffed?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2643
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 10 at 5:54pm

What I generally do is position myself below a slower boat that I know will outpoint me on the first beat and try to avoid letting a boat that can outpoint me get in below me.

This is in Handicap races when i am sailing the 8.1 and about the only thing at Hunts that can outpace me upwind is a Phantom, I tend to avoid them like the plague!

In a fleet race it is all about creating yourself a space on the line and protecting it. The trick is to not be there too early or too late. Also remind any boat that come up from below you and luffs up that they have to give you time (and space) to respond. So if you are pretty much stationary on the line they cannot push you up they have to allow you room to get enough boat speed to the rudder works.

The other thing I tend to do in a fleet race is keep moving (unless it is a packed line) and dive in to gap with about 20 s to go and hit the line at full speed. This can punch you out the front and it to clear air really well.

I must point out that because I am at the heavier end of the spectrum for a Laser I do tend to not point quite so high as the flyweights unless it is blowing but go for boatspeed instead which (usually) more than makes up for the extra distance I have to sail.

If the line is short and the course relatively square sometimes you can start at the non favoured end (or away from the favoured end) and in clear air which makes a much bigger difference than winning the correct end. I do this a lot in club racing but not at an open as the standard is much higher.

Paul
---------------------------
D-Zero GBR188
Ex Rooster 8.1 '11'
Ex Laser 167534
Ex Blaze 655
Back to Top
JRW1019 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 61
Post Options Post Options   Quote JRW1019 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 10 at 10:59pm
If you do find yourself on the line earlier than you
expected with everyone behind you you need to protect
your position. If there is a gap below you ensure that
you look behind and stop anyone getting too close to you
in that gap, that involve bearing away very slightly or
pushing the boom out, but whatever you can do to protect
the space to leeward then try it. If you are in the
opposite situation trying to find a gap, coming along
behind the fleet on port and tacking into a gap can work
quite well as the boat to windward of the gap has less
they can do about shutting you out.

The trouble with starting late and trying to find a gap
with less time to go is that at the favoured end space
may be at a premium and gaps are hard to come by. I would
imagine 4000's accelerate quite quickly so it may pay to
be reasonably close to the line earlyish
RS200 1019/1154
Firefly 3082
Ajax 14
Back to Top
grimupnorth View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 08 Dec 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 48
Post Options Post Options   Quote grimupnorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 10 at 11:04am
The 4000 is a very tough boat to handle in pre-start,
especially if you're used to a boat with soft sails that
is comfortable sailing 'almost stopped' - we learned this
very dramatically the other day doing club race training
as the only 4000 among lots of lasers!
I presume you've read all the stuff on the L4k website
cos I have seen you posting there ;-)
One approach is to keep some speed on and plan a start
based on time-over distance; either by sailing up to the
line on a slowish close reach and protecting your lane as
you go; or come in from the left on port and hope to find
a lane to tack into.
Otherwise you need (like we do!) to find ways of slowing
almost to a stop, which is v v difficult - there is
always the possibility of the boat heading up into irons
and then tacking, so the crew needs to have the lazy jib
sheet in hand ready to back the sail and flip the boat
back round. Coming to a complete stop involves backing
the main and learning then how to get the boat moving
again. What makes your life extra difficult is the
influence of the extremely long L4K daggerboard - when
flow over it breaks down at low speed, the boat becomes
very hard to control.
Learning how to do a 'bail out & gybe round' routine
under control is probably useful too :-)
We feel your pain!
Back to Top
redback View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1502
Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 10 at 11:12am
Actually the 4000 doesn't accelerate that fast because 1.
its heavy and 2. it has to get up to quite a high speed
which takes time.

I think you may have realised that you are sitting on the
line, better to come in fast, duck all the slow boats and
you'll be in clear air before you know it.
Back to Top
grimupnorth View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 08 Dec 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 48
Post Options Post Options   Quote grimupnorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 10 at 4:58pm
Also . . . check out the 'Higher & Faster' DVD for some
pre-start techniques. Then look at the results tally for
Alistair Richardson & Peter Greenhalgh, realise that they
are making it look very easy, and go for a nice cup of tea
and a quiet lie down :-)
Back to Top
ellistine View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 762
Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 10 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by redback

Actually the 4000 doesn't accelerate that
fast

I'm glad you said that. I was starting to think it was me!
Back to Top
LarFinn View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 10
Location: Roadford Lake, Devon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 38
Post Options Post Options   Quote LarFinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 10 at 6:54pm
I've just posted a load of videos to You Tube from this weekend Finn Masters at Roadford Lake. 6 of the 8 are about 2 minutes long starting from just before the 1 minute to go horn. Well worth a watch to see the different tactics. Fleet size was 15, so busy but not overcrowded. I was on the Committee boat so all the action is close up but I was about 5 foot back from the line - i.e. not looking straight down the line.
Andi

Finn GBR75



Back to Top
dave101 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Post Options Post Options   Quote dave101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 11 at 8:28am
Last year I did an open meeting where everyone lined up on the start line early, waited on the start line for a while and accelerated just before the start gun. From what I read that is the correct way to start. Since that open meeting I have been trying to do the same thing myself. However I have trouble stopping the boat at the right point, and when I do try to stop the boat tends to sneak forward/backwards or go into ions.

Does anyone have any tips on approach position and timing, and the best way to hold the boat (angle to wind, centerboard position etc.)?


Back to Top
Bryn_14 View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 10
Location: GB
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 113
Post Options Post Options   Quote Bryn_14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 11 at 11:38am
Originally posted by dave101

Last year I did an open meeting where everyone lined up on the start line early, waited on the start line for a while and accelerated just before the start gun. From what I read that is the correct way to start. Since that open meeting I have been trying to do the same thing myself. However I have trouble stopping the boat at the right point, and when I do try to stop the boat tends to sneak forward/backwards or go into ions.

Does anyone have any tips on approach position and timing, and the best way to hold the boat (angle to wind, centerboard position etc.)?



What boat do you sail? It has quite a big effect on timings and start strategies IMHO
Rs300 455

My 300 blog
Back to Top
dave101 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 21
Post Options Post Options   Quote dave101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 11 at 6:06pm
I'm sailing a Laser
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz