Olympic Classes

   Is popularity what is desirable??? I agree that boats need to be raced in most sailing areas / zones, but I don't think that size of fleet is a factor.
Surely a much bigger factor is complexity of the boat. Yachts like the Byte, Pico, and Laser Radial are pretty unsophisticated, untechnical. 
Although competitors learn to hike and pump, balance is about body position, and this does not really lead on to a further carrear in sailing - If we take the mens side as a perfect example, the technology curve goes from Laser to Finn to Star to ACC boat.... Remove the Finn and Star and you remove the stepping stones between base level and the top of the sport.
Same is true in womens sailing - surely given time we will see more women coming through Laser Radials at youth stage, Europes, Ynglings and then on to bigger boats.
Replace the Europe with 'something simpler' and youve removed a vital link in the chain.
Technical boat please. Don't dumb down the sport.

Author	Message / View First Unread Post Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
Adoo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 23 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 64	Post Options Post Reply Quote Adoo Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Olympic Classes Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 10:46am
	Is popularity what is desirable??? I agree that boats need to be raced in most sailing areas / zones, but I don't think that size of fleet is a factor. Surely a much bigger factor is complexity of the boat. Yachts like the Byte, Pico, and Laser Radial are pretty unsophisticated, untechnical. Although competitors learn to hike and pump, balance is about body position, and this does not really lead on to a further carrear in sailing - If we take the mens side as a perfect example, the technology curve goes from Laser to Finn to Star to ACC boat.... Remove the Finn and Star and you remove the stepping stones between base level and the top of the sport. Same is true in womens sailing - surely given time we will see more women coming through Laser Radials at youth stage, Europes, Ynglings and then on to bigger boats. Replace the Europe with 'something simpler' and youve removed a vital link in the chain. Technical boat please. Don't dumb down the sport.
	Better to be overpowered in the gusts than underpowered in the lulls!

Ent Man Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 29 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ent Man Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 1:15pm
	I heard that the Europe was originally an early design for the international moth that got excepted as a class on it's own merit. Why not use the int moth as the womens Olympic singlehander. They are certainly more technical than the laser radial.
	Campaign for longer weekends and therefore more sailing!

Jon Emmett Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 985	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jon Emmett Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 5:31pm
	I guess the arguement is whether the sailor with the best techique should win or should the sailor with the best technique development win? The problem with very techniqual boats is it will limit the number of people/countries which can affort to compete in the class. As far as I am aware the Int Moth is not sailed in a huge number of countries...
	Be Your Own Tactics Coach

Sarah B Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Groupie Joined: 15 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 92	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sarah B Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 5:35pm
	I agree that should the women's class be changed, or even the 'open men's' event, having two Laser boats does seem to be rather unfair for other manufacturers. Talk about world domination!

Jon Emmett Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 985	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jon Emmett Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 5:47pm
	I think that having two Laser boats in the Olympics may be one reason the Radial may not get selected but it is a good option. Personnally I do not know how the Pico can be seriously considered!!! Highly technical boats really drive our sport forward, just look at the I14 but the Olympic scene is not the appropriate place, here I think we are looking for the more gladiatorial type conflict where you are just chucked in the arena (with a off the shelf boat).
	Be Your Own Tactics Coach

canadalaser Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 18 Mar 04 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 25	Post Options Post Reply Quote canadalaser Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 10:10pm
	sorry, last time i checked having a boat that is incredibly technical didnt mean that the sailors were faster or more skilled. Look at the 18's at one point they were the most highly technical boats in all of sailing with huge, high-tension rigs. Julian Bethwaite changed all of teh with his B18 which was far less technical but also faster and allowed crews to focus on other parts of their sailing such as strategy and tactics. Just because you dont have eight million boat controls leading to the cockpit, doesn't mean that the boat is going to be anyless difficult o race against the world's best.You can't 'dumb down' a sport where the smartest win.

Doctor Clifford Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 243	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doctor Clifford Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 22 Apr 04 at 10:22pm
	Agreed, but the Pico???? Before we know it the cycling will be held on Grifters, the rowing in pedallos and the boxing in giant inflatable sumo suits! ( might get Athens off the hook though!!!) Whilst the competition as about people rather than machines, it should be a little better with a boat designed for sailing rather than one compromised by sailing school bumpercars technology.
	regards Dr. Clifford take two tablets twice daily

Pierre Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1532	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pierre Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Apr 04 at 10:12am
	Now Dr Clifford has a point about Athens..... It could be Olympic "It's a Knockout". Could have topper raft racing, plank walking, 49'er fancy dress. Yes that's definitely the way ahead. Would take peoples minds off everything else. Oh yes... Yngling mast dancing, if you get my drift....

Phil eltringham Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: England/Hitchin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1105	Post Options Post Reply Quote Phil eltringham Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Apr 04 at 10:31am
	I guess the problem is that there are actually few boats that are truely 'world' classes, ISAF recognition is one thing but how many of these classes are really sailed by a majority of countries?! We are very lucky in the UK having such a depth of different classes, and we have to remember that a lot of countries are not in this position. As for replacing the Europe: Firstly: Why does it need to be changed in the first place? Secondly: I agree totally with Dr C's comment. The Pico was designed as a training boat for children, as far as i can remember the optimum weight for the race sail is about 50kg, I do not mean to be rude but i guess that the majority of current europe fleet are a little bit bigger than that. Thirdly: The Laser Radial or the Byte is the girls boat at the ISAF youth worlds and so kids will be used to them, in the same way that the Laser1 is for the men. Then again you have the problem with the Radial of one company having an advantage. Are there any other ideas of boats?
	FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen

Ent Man Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 29 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ent Man Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 23 Apr 04 at 12:51pm
	I was playing devils advocate when I suggested the Int Moth. My personal view is that an olympic class should be respected as a serious racing boat which is widely available, gives close tactical racing and be a class that the average sailor can relate to. Personally I think the laser Radial with the XD pack is a good choice. A further point that organisers would consider is that having by having two classes of lasers they only need to supply one set of boats and run the radial competition before the full rig competition.
	Campaign for longer weekends and therefore more sailing!