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Adam MR 1137 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adam MR 1137 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sails not full
    Posted: 11 May 09 at 2:30pm

Hi all a quick query from a situation that arose at the weekend,

I was sailing along the start line, about a boat length under the line, on starboard with my sail almost empty so I was sailing slowly. Aiming to get to the port end of the line at about 10s to go tack and then start on a port tack flyer (worked by the way, got to the top mark first ).

A boat on port crossed in front of me forcing me to point up and then back down around his transom. I called starboard on him, but he said I had no rights because my sails were not full. Is that correct? I was moving, just very slowly with my sail very loosely sheeted.

What would have happened if I was stationary, do I have right of way over port tack boats?

Thanks for any help

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChickenTack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 2:42pm
Adam

Sounds like you were in the right, certainly there is no obligation for you to have your sails full you could have been stationary full speed accellerating or even drifting backwards (provided none of your sails were backed). I am however a little confused about your avoiding action however.

"forcing me to point up and then back down around his transom"

could you elaborate

thanks
Will
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Adam MR 1137 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adam MR 1137 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 2:54pm

He was sailing along the line, to windward of me, and then he bore away in front of me, which without me pointing up momentarily could have lead to a collision.

Not sure if we would have made contact, and that is mainly why I didn't protest, just wanting to understand when i have rights better.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 4:59pm

Starboard tack constant course and speed (albeit slow): all boats on port should keep clear rule 12 and all boats to windward and overlapped should keep clear rule 11.  By avoiding the port boat you did the correct thing rule 14 (avoiding contact), could the port boat keep clear? if so I would expect you to win a protest.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Adam MR 1137 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 7:12pm

Thanks for the clarification on this weekends incident. glad to know I would have won a protest, as it happens I got a good start despite that.

Just out of interest, would I have rights over a port tack boat if I was on starboard and stationary?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Adam MR 1137

Just out of interest, would I have rights over a port tack boat if I was on starboard and stationary?

Reckon so. The only posible exception I know of is
21.3 A boat moving astern by backing a sail shall keep clear of one that is not.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 7:55pm

You have rights over port even if going astern as long as you didn't achieve sternway by backing a sail.  You can also back a sail to stop and still require a port boat to keep clear as long as they have the opportunity and you don't start moving astern.

Worth getting a good rules explanation book like Elvstrom,

Garry

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 09 at 8:40pm
Once again, in order to fully understand a rule it is important to read the definitions in your rule book.

"A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding to her windward side." Nothing in the definition about how the sails are trimmed, indeed a boat with no sails hoisted would still be on starboard or port tack!

Rule 10 says "when boats are on opposite tacks, a port-tack boat shall keep clear of a starboard-tack boat." This applies whether the boat is moving, stationary, or even moving astern (unless she is moving astern by backing a sail).

You were not able to sail your course with no need to take avoiding action - so port-tack boat did not keep clear (see definition). Port boat broke rule 10.

You should have immediately shouted "Protest" in a clear loud voice. If the other boat did not take her penalty as soon as possible you should have filled in a protest form and demanded a hearing.

If port tack boat was an experienced sailor, who should know better, then by attempting to mislead you about your rights he clearly did not "compete in compliance with recognised principles of sportsmanship and fair play". He thus broke rule 2 "Fair Sailing". You or the protest comitteee should protest him under this rule and a non excludable disqualification would be the appropriate (and obligatory) penalty. Such behaviour should not be tolerated

If he was an inexperienced sailor suggest he buy a rule book and commentary.

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 09 at 8:38am

Well explained Gordon :-) and dead right by my view. I have had someone try to protest me following a tack because they said my tack was not complete because my sail was not set. I pointed it that was irrelevant it was my course that mattered.

This was an experienced sailor (and a nice chap by all accounts) but he never keeps himself up to date on the current rules.

Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 09 at 10:30am

Originally posted by gordon

Once again, in order to fully understand a rule it is important to read the definitions in your rule book.

"A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding to her windward side." Nothing in the definition about how the sails are trimmed, indeed a boat with no sails hoisted would still be on starboard or port tack!

Sorry Gordon, for the benefit of some readers who may mis-interpret,  could you add the full definition which covers 'running by the lee' ?

Andy Mc.



Edited by Andymac
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