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49er medal race

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Contender 541 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 11:34am

Originally posted by tack'ho

SI 21.2 Replacements Ashore: Requests for substitution of damaged or lost equipment shall be made to the measurement coordinator for consideration by the measurement committee. Permission will be given only when the committee is satisfied that the item of equipment is severely damaged, not deliberately mistreated, and cannot be repaired satisfactorily. A request shall be made at the first reasonable opportunity on a form available at the protest desk.

Make of that what you will!

Given that this is a rule for replacement ashore.......

First reasonable opportunity (implicaton is in writing) - definately would need to be a retrospective thing in this case

IMHO they will be thrown out of the medal race due to the replacement of the boat (and not just the mast) - not due to the infringement of the rule regarding permission to replace.

A case of thinking on your feet and damning the consequences - they would have (should have) known the implications of their actions.  Better to win on the water and have a 1% chance of retaining it in front of the jury than know you could have done something but didn't

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 12:18pm

Depends, usually when a mast goes on the 49er it rips the mast step out of the deck, so they could argue that the hull could not be used either, depends I guess, I really hope it does not stick, would be a shame to end the regatta this way!

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by JimC

I dunno, I reckon that 49er
race was more of a lottery than the damn drifters... The number of
medals that changed hands in the last gybe/bear away to the line was
phenomenal. I thought they would have looked better on the box than
they did. Disappointing


 


Jim, I greatly respect you, but this is just utter rubbish.  If we ever want
sailing to be watched by non sailors, this is exactly what they will wat to
see.  Fast boats in challenging conditions.


Will this race make the "general news" - maybe, will it be on the
hilights tonight.


YES....


Perhaps we need two olympic regattas


1, Slow boring boats drifting around the course that will inspire no-
one except some sailors


2, Fast exciting boats which make the general public go "Wow" that
looks wild and challenging, I'd like to try that....



Would you mind a bit less prejudice?

Can you show us evidence that slow boats turn people off the sport?

Can you show us evidence that fast boats turn people onto the sport?

Once again, if fast boats turn people on and slow boats turn people off,
why do the vast majority of people choose to sail slow boats?

Why is the number of skiff types, in the UK and Australia, dropping at a
time when slow boats like Lasers are getting record fleets in some places?

Even the top selling board these days (Kona One) is slow in terms of top
speed.

Okay, you can't help yourself from throwing stones at others - but if you
expect anyone to believe your line, you'll have to give them some
evidence.

BTW, I spent the day getting the F16 type cat ready for a regatta at a skiff
club, so I'm not coming from just a slow boat perspective. But the one-
eyed view has done a hell of a lot of damage to a great part of the sport
(windsurfing) and we should try to make sure it doesn't infect the rest of
sailing.

Please, show us some evidence for your views. If you can't find objective
evidence, maybe you are the one who is writing rubbish?




Edited by Chris 249
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Teamvmg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 1:32pm

At the end of the race, Dave Campbell-James held up the results on a board at the back of the committee boat. DEN was listed as a finisher. Surely if the change of boat had not been registered properly, DEN would have been listed as DNS as the PRO would not have known who the hell was on his course in the CRO boat.

I was beginning to think that Olympic sailing was doomed until this mental race got going - well done to all the sailors for saving our sport from dullness beyond belief [In the perception of joe public]

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mossman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 1:55pm

Chris 249, I think we need to be careful about the distinction between watching a sport and doing a sport.

I can't help thinking that if a non-sailor watched the 49er medal race, thought 'that looks fun', went on the internet and bought a 49er today, he may regret it. Hopefully, they will have gone 'that looks fun, should we have a sailing holiday next year' and as a result start out in something a bit more manageable.

Personally I really enjoyed the spectacle of the 49er race, although I can recognise that it probably was a bit of a lottery (did anyone manage to get round the course without capsizing?). It certainly made me stop playing with my Lego until after the race, when I made a model of a 49er which immediately capsized in the bath.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 2:20pm

Regardless of the final result and actual quality of racing,  this must rank as some of the best sailing we have seen on TV,  we had thrills, spills,  drama,  and action,  all the elements that make for great TV.  Even the non sailing members of the family were gripped

Hope the Danes win,  they certainly deserve to,  but hard to see how they can within the rules,  and as they say 'Rules are Rules'

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by JimC

I dunno, I reckon that 49er
race was more of a lottery than the damn drifters... The number of
medals that changed hands in the last gybe/bear away to the line was
phenomenal. I thought they would have looked better on the box than
they did. Disappointing


 


Jim, I greatly respect you, but this is just utter rubbish.  If we ever want
sailing to be watched by non sailors, this is exactly what they will wat to
see.  Fast boats in challenging conditions.


Will this race make the "general news" - maybe, will it be on the
hilights tonight.


YES....


Perhaps we need two olympic regattas


1, Slow boring boats drifting around the course that will inspire no-
one except some sailors


2, Fast exciting boats which make the general public go "Wow" that
looks wild and challenging, I'd like to try that....



Would you mind a bit less prejudice?

Can you show us evidence that slow boats turn people off the sport?

Can you show us evidence that fast boats turn people onto the sport?

Once again, if fast boats turn people on and slow boats turn people off,
why do the vast majority of people choose to sail slow boats?

Why is the number of skiff types, in the UK and Australia, dropping at a
time when slow boats like Lasers are getting record fleets in some places?

Even the top selling board these days (Kona One) is slow in terms of top
speed.

Okay, you can't help yourself from throwing stones at others - but if you
expect anyone to believe your line, you'll have to give them some
evidence.

BTW, I spent the day getting the F16 type cat ready for a regatta at a skiff
club, so I'm not coming from just a slow boat perspective. But the one-
eyed view has done a hell of a lot of damage to a great part of the sport
(windsurfing) and we should try to make sure it doesn't infect the rest of
sailing.

Please, show us some evidence for your views. If you can't find objective
evidence, maybe you are the one who is writing rubbish?


 

Chris,

That fact my 7 year old son went off to play with his lego as Ben sailed around the course.

 

he was glued to the screen whith the 49ers and all the sailing he's seen he has been asking "where are the 49ers and the Tornado's"

Every time A tornado appeared on the first Star race he instantly started watching it, same when the 49ers were on other courses.

However he is the son of a cat sailor and Skiff liker.  But it shows what we need to keep the kids happy.

My mates who drive and race cars have a similar opinion.  They will watch the Skiff DVD's when at my house, they will comment on it looks fun and challenging.  Mate phoned me up last week to talk about a race car project and commented that all the sailing had been boring except the small snippits of the T he had seen. 

My parents are sailors, they watched Ben for a while and then went in the garden when it was certain he's won.  Tehy came back and whatched the whole 49er race.

Only anicdotal evidence, but these are the sorts of people we need to attract if we want it to be seen as something that should be in the ollies and an interesting sport to watch.

If we want people to take part, we need to make people interested in the sport first.  Many of my mates have seen sailing as fat gits in boats drinking G+T's; the wind in china has not helped, they all ask "what's the challenge in sailing in 4 kts of wind".  We KNOW it's difficult, but it does not LOOK difficult.  Sailing fast boats looks difficult because people think sailing fast is harder than sailing slow.

As people has said in advertsing - the facts do not matter, it's perception.....

 

 

As for getting more people to sail, we generally have a declining sport, we need to entice people to sail, how do we do that.  Opinions differ, by I believe it needs to look good, and IMO, slow boats don't LOOK good, however good the racing is. 

Would people watch F1 if they went around at 20 miles an hour and never crashed?  Nope, they would watch Touring cars that do crash.  Would they watch Bike racing if they were doing 20mph and not leaning over in the corners nope.

If I can summarise, My view is we need sailing to be seen as a "good sport to watch" that will then entice people to start, or even try sailing. 

I THINK your view is that this will not work and we just need to somehow get more people sailing.

 

My son is still talking about the 49er race this moring, and the first thing he said when we got to my parents was "did you watch the 49ers?", he said the same thing at the party I just took him to.

 

My next problem is how do I pursuade him to sail a Catamaran instead of a 29er.........

 

 



Edited by Scooby_simon
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allanorton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 4:54pm

Originally posted by Roy Race

Originally posted by JimC

I dunno, I reckon that 49er race was more of a lottery than
the damn drifters... The number of medals that changed hands in the last
gybe/bear away to the line was phenomenal.

I thought they would have looked better on the box than they did.
Disappointing


I agree. I thought it was a bit silly and a poor advert for the sport. I hate to
say it, but GRF could be right. It didn't look stupidly windy, but the best 49er
sailors in the world couldn't get round the course. I bet a well sailed 420
would have won that race on the water.

Totally agree also, non sailors will look at olympic 49ers as a joke event.  "When there's no wind they look boring, when they get some wind they can't stay in them!"

I doubt whether any non sailors watch olympic sailing any way, as there are other events going on which they can understand and see whose winning.  As a sailor, I couldn't see who was leading that race, perhaps the countries flags should also be shown on the bottom of the hull, or on the centre boards for the 49ers!

Seriously, I would rather see another class used, where 35-40 countries are represented and where the so-called best sailors in the world don't look like beginners.  I want to see racing, not a demolision derby!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 4:54pm

I thought the race made the most gripping TV I have seen for some time ... if they strip the Danish of their medal I will be most sad about that.

I think that was a classic example of people feeling the preasure of Olympic glory beckoning ... what a race, I was exhausted just watching it.

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 08 at 5:06pm
you will not get another class with 35-40 boats, ISAF sets the limits on the number of competitors in each class under direction from IOC and thus the size of fleets we had at this years games are size they will always be and picking another class whaever it is will not change that, something more fundamental needs to change if we are to get more 'big' fleets competing. 
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