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A 2-man advanced trainer... on a budget

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El Thermidor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote El Thermidor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A 2-man advanced trainer... on a budget
    Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 7:23pm

Right. Having done a bit of sailing in our youth, and been on a couple of sailing-themed holidays, we feel the time has come to own our own. Having seen previous posts, I figured the easiest way to describe what I thought we wanted was to answer a series of pre-asked questions, and see how far that got me. So, your suggestions please...

Where do you live.

Basingstoke.

Will you be sailing on the sea or on an inland water.

Sea. Somewhere between Portsmouth and Lymington.

How often do you want to sail.

Realistically, three weekends a month, although I can see some holiday weeks being spent on the water as well.

Will sailing be your main hobby.

Probably.

Who will mainly be sailing/racing the boat.

Me (more confidence than ability) and my Mrs (the other way round).

How much do you and/or your crew weigh and how tall are they.

Me:6'1", 15st. Her: 5'7", 10st.(ish )

How much do you wish to spend.

Probably between £1000 and £2000, but it rather depends on what's out there. If it's less then so much the better.

Do you want a new boat or a second hand one.

See above.

Do you want a traditional class or one of the newer class boats.

Something that we can learn some more in, that has a trapeze. Don't want all wood, but could cope with some.

Do you want to travel with your boat, to race or potter.

I don't want to rule out any of these, but I don't know which will dominate.

Do you want to keep your boat at home or elsewhere e.g. at a club.

Probably keep it at home, but again, I don't know.

Do you want to join a club.

I'd have thought so. But which one, given the myriad of chouces along that stretch of water?

What clubs are near to you and do they meet your needs.

Not really. We'd rather sail on the sea. But I suppose it's not that far.

What classes are sailed/raced at the club and what are the turn outs like.

See above.

Are you looking for a club which has a strong social/kids section/crèche, etc.

Childless and loving it. Don't want anything to cliquey.

How far are you prepared to travel in order to sail.

See above.

Do you want a dinghy, a keelboat or a catamaran.

Dinghy, maybe keelboat (e.g. f15?). Not a cat. She hates cats.

Do you need a trailer or will you car top.

Trailer.

Do you want a high performance boat or a slower one.

Highish without being a liability when handled by muppets. Trapeze and spinny (are symetrics very difficult compared to gennakers?), but don't want to be put off by an evil skiff.

Without wishing to prejudice any responses, my current, thoroughly ill-informed shortlist includes, but is not limited to:

  • an ISO
  • one of the fastsail lot (fd, osprey, 470, 505, javelin etc.)
  • something a bit older like a scorpion

I don't weant something too cramped, or that we're overweight (I'm aware that the competitive weights are quite a bit lower than we are for a lot of classes).

So that's about it. Please feel free to debunk or otherwise giggle at my choices. But only if you follow with something nice and constructive.

Cheers,

El T.

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carshalton fc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote carshalton fc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 7:54pm

a buzz or iso is a good bet cos they are made buy a good company and there are loads of spare parts around.

an assametric spinny is much easier than an symetrical one just because there is useually a single line hoist and drop rope.  i personally learnt in a assametric and they are quite easy to use.

lymington is a good frendly club but there are quite a lot of cats there  .

 

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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 7:59pm

Porchester, weston, stokes Bay, Lymington- there are loads of clubs there, you'll be spoiled by choice.

An rs400 sounds like a good bet, especially if you decide you want to race.

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carshalton fc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote carshalton fc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 8:01pm
an rs 400 is a good racing boat but not very good if you are just taking freinds out and giving them a go ect.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 8:27pm

Yes i agree with you there but it is still possible to mess about in a 400, it is quite a good all purpose boat.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ianwat2212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 8:51pm
If u get an RS400, Lee-on-Solent SC (next along the coast 2wards Southampton from stokes bay) has a very active RS400 fleet.
Fireball RSA 14723
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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 05 at 11:31pm

Hi El Thermidor,

I noticed that you used some of my questions from another post from last year, I am pleased that they were of use to you.

I suspect that you might be asking for too much and that you might have to compromise somewhere.  You are a big bloke at 6' 1" tall and 15 stones in weight, with your wife at say 10 stones then you have an all up weight of 25 stones. Your height and your combined weight means that you need a boat which will carry quite alot of weight so you are looking at hiking boats such as an RS 400, an Albacore or a Merlin Rocket or trapeze boats such as an Osprey, Flying Dutchman, Boss, Int.14, Javelin, etc.  Some of these trapeze boats such as Int. 14 are very technical and they are all 'high performance'. Wouldn't they be too advanced for you at your skill level? Are you good at swimming (sic)?

The next thing is how much you want to spend i.e.£1000 to £2000.  With all due respect, you will be struggling to get an RS 400, an Albacore or some of the trapeze boats for that amount of money.  Like everything else, you get what you pay for.  You state that you don't want an all wooden boat, some of the old Albacores and Merlins are wood within that price range and it is possible to get GRP or composite Merlins within that price range.

It looks as though you want to have some fun and want a challenge, I realise that your wife does not like cats but a Dart 18 might be a good option, you would still be quite heavy but they are a big, fast, powerful boat and they have a trapeze which you say you would also like.  Again, at your skill level you would find it very forgiving and there would be less swimming.  The other thing is that you could easily pick one up for less than £2000.

You have also mentioned a Flying 15 keelboat.  The boat would be okay for you but it would be a very old boat to be within your price range.

So far as relates to clubs, you have a massive choice, there are lots of clubs on the south coast in the area you have stated. Examples would be Hayling Island (good FF fleet), Stokes Bay (good RS400 and Dart 18 fleets), Lee on the Solent (RS 400 and FD fleets), Weston (RS 400 fleet), Itchenor (FF and Int. 14 fleets), Chichester (RS 400 fleet) Netley (Albacore Fleet) and there are many others.

There is an RS 400 for £2250 on the RS site, which is by far the cheapest and it is a very old boat - about 10 years old, the rest are around the £3000 mark. 

Personally,I think that it is a good idea to choose a club first and then get a boat that they sail at that club, visit them all, more than once, on race days and find one you like.  When you have done this, then decide on a boat that meets your requirements.

It is possible to get an older Merlin Rocket within your price range but unless you were to go to the Poole area, I don't think that there are any big Merlin fleets, at the clubs mentioned, but you could always sail in a 'handicap' fleet.

To get some idea of boat prices you could take a look at the back of Yachts and Yachting magazine, the  'for sale' sections in the clubs and classes sections of this site or take a look at www.dinghyshop.co.uk .

To meet most of your needs (unfortunately not your wife's), the best bet might be to seriously consider Stokes Bay and a Dart 18.

I hope that this helps.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Edited by iansmithofotley
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El Thermidor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote El Thermidor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 05 at 10:48am

Thanks very much for your replies so far. We looked at the RS400 at the boat show, but had discounted it on cost grounds. We were offered a laser 5000 FOC this season, but decided it was going to be too much of a handful. We were looking at a laser 3000, but it's a bit small and right at the top of our price bracket, even for an early one. And she doesn't like cats (fun though they are) because of the difficulty we had righting one last year...

I'm happy enough in a laser in a stiff breeze, have sailed the Feva XL single-handed with 3 sails (and 2 up, but that was a bit snu), and we've sailed the laser 2000 happily enough using trapeze and genny.

iansmithofotley: you say that the older trapeze boats are very technical and high performance. While I don't want to capsize every time we try to tack, I do want something to learn and develop in. Would they be too much? Swimming a few times is to be expected (all part of the fun), but all the time is a drag.

I didn't want to discount the older stuff just because it wasn't an RS or laser. I figured we'd get more for our money in an "unfashionable" class. I'd anticipated being in a handicap fleet.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 05 at 2:34pm
You ought to go in a sail in some of the boats to see what appeals to you. For instance I find Isos uncomfortable to sail with poor ergnomics, other people think they are really good, and hate some of the boats I like.

As you are going to be sailing your boat a lot you need to consider maintenance - boats at the bottom end of the price range might well eat quite a lot in terms of ropes, worn out fittings, tired sails and the like.

Fireballs would be worth a look other than what you've mentioned. Make sure you get a ride on an RS400, its such a good fit for your weight requirements you really should find out if you like it or no even tho' no trapeze. If you like it enough maybe the money could stretch? 505 could be a bit too much like hard work for most 10 stone sailors.

Contact Class associations, most should be able to organise a ride on a boat in your area, if they can't that's in itself instructive. Also talk to people at Clubs, but you need to talk to people in boats you want to consider!

Clubwise from where you are Lee, Weston and Stokes are all good possibilities.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote headfry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 05 at 5:11pm
Harry44981.....thank you 

I was almost put off a 400 last night and have since sent a sad day thinking my dream boat was out of reach because we were quite new to sailing and all a 400 is good for is racing.    I am happy again, you have restored my faith in the 400 as the boat for us. Maybe we will race her, maybe we will just enjoy sailing around,  I saw a 400 at a boat show, fell in love with the shape, did RYA 1&2, and now hope to buy one ASAP, yes we need more skill for the 400 but why can't we learn as we go, or is that not, as I am lead to believe, not the done thing with a 400!  We will start off slow and build on our skills, but most of all we will enjoy a beautiful boat and I guess become good swimmers!  Again thank you Harry44981
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