New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: starting signals
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

starting signals

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
hurricane View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1047
Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: starting signals
    Posted: 31 Jan 05 at 7:47pm
after a recent discussion i was part of, how many people will admit to breaking the rules and setting their watches on the sounds rather than the flag signals. I for one will admit i used to  while club racing as it was almost impossible to see the flags!! 

Edited by hurricane
Back to Top
sailor girl View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 04
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Quote sailor girl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 05 at 7:56pm
at my club when we have inside starts (meaning our start line is among alot of moorings!) it is somtimes imposible to see the flags so we use the sound signals most of the time anyway!

Edited by sailor girl
Sailor Girl, Queen Of The Forum!
Back to Top
iansmithofotley View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 05 at 8:29pm

Hi Hurricane,

I think that, in practice, and wrongly, as you have said, we all set our watches to the sound signals. Often, particularly in club racing, when the start line is not far from the shore and the launching area, some people don't even launch until the 'warning signal' and prior to that they are messing about with their boats on the shore, they wait for the sound signal with their watches on zero, or countdown, and then just hit the button on the sound signal.

In some clubs, like my own, probably 75% of club members who act as race officers, haven't got a clue about the flags and sound signals and their sequences. It became such a problem that the club invested in a timing device fitted to the hooter that automatically sounds at 5,4,1,0 (see www.autohoot.com). Even then, we are lucky to get the flags going up and down in the right order.  With this 'automatic' system, it is still easy to raise a flag at the wrong time purely through the inexperience of the race officer.  Again, like you say, most people just work off the sound signals, even though it is wrong.  The good thing with the 'automatic' sound signals is that they are absolutely accurate so everyone is happy.

I think that many club sailors, at small clubs, who only do duties a couple of times a year, and who don't race themselves (and particularly windsurfers who have no interest in dinghy racing anyway and have been, in my opinion, wrongly allocated race officer duties for dinghy racing), struggle with the whole business of setting courses, starting races and using the equipment available. The funny thing is that, often, they never get any better, they do it so infrequently that they forget, or they never make any effort to learn in the first place until they turn up at the club on the day, and then they complain that nobody has shown them what to do.

This is another topic in itself i.e. allocation of duties, race officer training, 'no duty' memberships, etc., etc.  The consequence of all this is that it is always the same small group of people who are detailed to run the various open meetings throughout the year.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Edited by iansmithofotley
Back to Top
Doctor Clifford View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 243
Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 05 at 9:39pm
I have found that at Grafham it pays to ignore the flags.

At a cat regatta a couple of years ago, a boat or two were over the line. Someone waved the General recall flag - then put up the individual recall flag.
Half the fleet stopped - but had to carry on. They refused to bin the race. basically a farce.
That is also the result of only programming 4 races over a weekend with no room for cancelled races, when even a tricky tidal venue can manage 5 or 6 over the same time period.

There is an excuse for club racing - but when you travel across the country and pays yer money, you expect a hint of professionalism.
regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily
Back to Top
Scooby_simon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2413
Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 05 at 10:18pm

Dr C.

We now have 6 races at the Grafam cat open.  I did not know about this, but apologies on whom ever did it wrong's behalf.  I am sure it was a mistake that will never happen again at the Cat open.  I've never heard of this happening before at Grafham, we usually get it right.  Come to the next Cat open and I will buy you a beer to make up for it.

 

F16 GBR 553 - Hungry Monster - For sale
Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
I also talk sport here
Back to Top
Doctor Clifford View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 243
Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 05 at 8:14am
i plan to be there....depends on the bairn!
regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily
Back to Top
catmandoo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 533
Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 05 at 12:51pm

Want to hear a bigger farce,

 

My sons untill recently sailed Toppers, an intensely competitive fleet with big numbers , they attended an inland regatta the last regatta of the travellers and decider of overall postions in series for many.

Due to layout it was possible for spectators to stand below starters balcony on Start layline to watch the fun on the poorly set line , race started in complete confusion , flags and horns a plenty !, r.o was heard to request general recall which was made with flags and sound signals , a rib rounded up leaders and front half of fleetand his calls of generall recall were clearly heard ashore and he sent them back , then R.O decided to let race continue !!!!

When the unfortunate youngsters - many of whom weren't over the line appealed for redress (quite rightly as they had been seriously affected by the R.O's actions) , redress was denied alongside the unfortunate sequence of events even happening !!!

Infact the class coach was asked to get the redress seekers to withdraw their request !

The R.O in question was an imported "expert" to help out an inexperienced club , not much help !

Needless to say we never returned there

 

 

 

Back to Top
Matt Jackson View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 04
Location: Darlington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 962
Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 05 at 12:59pm

Yes the rules say the flags are the real signal and the hoot is to draw your attention to it. However, in most start huts I've been allowed in there is 1 person doing the hoot and another the flag and the flag starts to go up when they hear the hoot. So over a short distance the hoot is more accurate.

Of course over a long line the hoot may arrive to some competitors seconds after others which is why it's better use the flags.

Basically if you go by the hoot you shouldn't ever be over the line!

Graduate 2157, Laser 125557
Back to Top
Matt Jackson View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 04
Location: Darlington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 962
Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 05 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by catmandoo

Want to hear a bigger farce,

 

My sons untill recently sailed Toppers, an intensely competitive fleet with big numbers , they attended an inland regatta the last regatta of the travellers and decider of overall postions in series for many.

Due to layout it was possible for spectators to stand below starters balcony on Start layline to watch the fun on the poorly set line , race started in complete confusion , flags and horns a plenty !, r.o was heard to request general recall which was made with flags and sound signals , a rib rounded up leaders and front half of fleetand his calls of generall recall were clearly heard ashore and he sent them back , then R.O decided to let race continue !!!!

When the unfortunate youngsters - many of whom weren't over the line appealed for redress (quite rightly as they had been seriously affected by the R.O's actions) , redress was denied alongside the unfortunate sequence of events even happening !!!

Infact the class coach was asked to get the redress seekers to withdraw their request !

The R.O in question was an imported "expert" to help out an inexperienced club , not much help !

Needless to say we never returned there

Ooh now I'm intrigued, did anyone take it further? Can spectators be called to a protest committe?

Graduate 2157, Laser 125557
Back to Top
catmandoo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 533
Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 05 at 1:36pm

No in the intrests of civility the children learnt the hard way, unfortunately, rules don't always get obeyed even by some  Race committees and this R.O had no excuse due to his supposed standing. It wasn't the only stinking decision of the weekend.

They could have appealed to RYA but that would have been taking it too far. The kids were mature enough to accept a bad situation and parents too after a while .To futher the debacle would have ruined the weekend .

It was unjust , but at least the kids knew it unlike the R.O .

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz