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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 12:08pm

I still say it does pay to be know for luffing purely because it is your wind as much as it is theirs, if they want it they may have to pay a price (esp if they have a kite up....)

The usual situ for me though is versus Phantoms when it does pay to keep them behind for as long as possible otherwise they can just get away and the slaughter you on handicap (especially in marginal planing conditions I find).

Were there much faster boats racing with me I would expect them to be a long way ahead (obviously they may come and lap me...). In any case you do have to thin a little bit tactically and weigh up the advantages and disadvantages on a case by case basis (ie will you gain more or lose more...)

Paul

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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 12:32pm

I see Jeffers , we may have been talking about scenarios in differing perspectives , you are talking of situations within handicap racing were performance differences are not so dramatic and also where you are racing the passing boat too.

My comments from an assymetric cat sailor on passing slower boats by the fastest and least harmfull to BOTH boats was actually in the scenario where we find slow boats who do not understand what we are trying to do when passing and who we are not even racing , ie not in our class luff like loons to stop us , only to worsen their overall standing in their fleet , a minor blip for us .

I fully realise that within your own class there are times when it is tacticaly advantageous to slow down faster boats WITHIN YOUR CLASS (and in fact within cats too) , but as explained in my posting above  and Scoobies  entries it is only to your detriment when trying to slow down boats (who are trying to cause you the LEAST interference)  that you aren't even racing .

When I say you/your  I generalise to those in slower boats and not in my class , I'm not saying you Jeffers propose such actions.

I will try and foresee such situations arising and try to avoid (as fastest for me ) but sometimes it just isn't possible , rounding leeward marks with short beat requiring only 1 tack to finish and a scattering of pinching single handers spread before you being a common  example .

We all have to get on with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote john.d.knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 1:22pm

Here's a quote from another thread in this forum. Which suggests that if you are lapping a boat then they can't luff you.

22 INTERFERING WITH ANOTHER BOAT

22.1 If reasonably possible, a boat not racing shall not interfere with a boat

that is racing.

22.2 A boat shall not change course if her only purpose is to interfere

with a boat making a penalty turn or one on another leg or lap of the course.

 

There is, however, no definition of what "interfere" means. Is luffing an overtaking boat to keep clear air "interference" or is it normal tactics? I can't imagine calling starboard (between boats racing) is "interference". So what is and is not "interference"? I'm not at all sure what this change means. I suspect we will have to wait for some cases.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 1:38pm

I'm not sure about that. What is "interference"? Are normal boat-on-boat tactics to maintain clear air "interference" or is "interference" purely deliberate harrassment of another boat?

The RRS glossary does not define the term and the ISAF casebook doesn't have any case related to rule 22.1 (the old bit). How as helms we are supposed to know what it means is a mystery to me.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 2:04pm

Hi Stefan,

I know Scooby sails a Grafham which is considerably larger than the lake I sail on. Were I sailing on  Grafham regularly my tactics would be somewhat different as you are right it would be much better to let a much faster boat through as this gives you the least amount of rsistance.

However the puddle I sail on has an area of just over 50 acres and you can quite happily keep a faster boat behind you by keeping to windward of them and ensuring that you get inside at the next mark.

It does make for some interesting tactics with plenty of opportunity to gain and lose places as on reaches the Phantoms do tend to be faster however down a dead run the Laser  wins out (and if the wind gets to F4 and above our Phantoms tend to struggle).

As I said you do need to weigh up each situation as it arises and always choose the option that is going to cost you the least and gain you the most (whilst racing within the rules of course, we are still using RRS2001-2004 as our local SI state thats what we use until March when the new SI's will be released).

It is nice to know that if you are overtaking someone then they are not allowed to interfere with you. However being a 'sportsman' in these situations is always welcomed as if they are racing hard with someone then it is always a good idea to try and not mess up their race.

Paul

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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 2:05pm

Just found new  rule 22.2 myself too ,

 

you guys beat me to it .

Seems it would cover faster boats lapping slower ones and within same class .

A rya/isaf clarification would be useful as this situation arises often.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by catmandoo

Just found new  rule 22.2 myself too ,

 

you guys beat me to it .

Seems it would cover faster boats lapping slower ones and within same class .

A rya/isaf clarification would be useful as this situation arises often.

Surely we'll have to wait for the first protest on this / and or appeal so it goes into case law ?

 

Will remember the it for the next time i'm lapping or double or triple lapping people and just shout "stop it you nasty man, read 22.2 "

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 05 at 4:35pm

The more I think about 22.2 the worse it gets. It is fine in a championship where there is only one class going around a course. But thinking about something like the Warsash Spring Series White Group: you have around 100 boats in half a dozen different classes sailing in the same bit of the Solent. Some are doing the same course, some aren't. You probably don't know what course another class is doing (and perhaps can't, because you are asked to keep well clear of the line and committee boat area before your start). So how are you supposed to know if a boat in another class is on the same leg/lap as you are anyway? It is fair enough to be expected to keep tabs on your own class, but how can you know what half a dozen others are all up to?

I'm sure some people sailing dinghies inland will face similar problems.

 



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