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Inside Overlap

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Granite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 05 at 1:28pm

For overtaking practice you hoists and drops, getting the timing for the drop exactly right and getting the kite in the bag quickly can easily gain quite a few places from those that drop early and waddle slowly into the mark or are late and usually make a wide rounding.

Some boats are fast off wind but slow upwind so often have to do a lot of overtaking down wind.

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redback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 05 at 3:10pm
Very good points in the last 2 posts.  Its not that its anything new, its just that a little discussion gets the priorities right.  Many thanks.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 05 at 1:14pm
I've always found (sailing a Firefly on a small lake where upwind I can stuff almost all the so called fast handicap boats, but get rolled downwind) that rather than luffing people, making sure I know where boats are and politely suggesting that I will sail them off the lake if they go above me tends to do the trick... If the boat is very much faster, I don't generally bother. They will be gone so soon as not to matter. And I can usually get past them again up the next beat anyway. Of course, overtaking in pursuit races is another matter!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob.e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 05 at 8:52pm

In club H/cap races I rarely luff a faster boat, unless I think he'll take too long to pass. The quicker they're past, the less time they're slowing you! You get into a luffing duel, and find a Topper or mirror has beaten you on handicap....Sometimes a quick early agressive luff will persuade them to leeward, but basically the quicker they're gone, the better.

Or to put it another way, I agree with Garry!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 2:43pm

One thing worth bearing in mind when being passed by a fasterboat downwind, especially an assymetric cat , usually the cat/other will pass to windward of you , this is not out of spite I assure you , rather consideration , to bear off below a boat sailing lower allready can stall the faster boat , slowing it down considerably and causing you and the passing boat maximum delay and you don't want a big sailed boat stalled to lee!

Similarily upwind , the course of least resistance is for the faster boat to go above , to go below then ahead and back onto course would give the slower boat ming loads of "dirty" air.

So sorry , it's damage limitation .

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 05 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by catmandoo

One thing worth bearing in mind when being passed by a fasterboat downwind, especially an assymetric cat , usually the cat/other will pass to windward of you , this is not out of spite I assure you , rather consideration , to bear off below a boat sailing lower allready can stall the faster boat , slowing it down considerably and causing you and the passing boat maximum delay and you don't want a big sailed boat stalled to lee!

Similarily upwind , the course of least resistance is for the faster boat to go above , to go below then ahead and back onto course would give the slower boat ming loads of "dirty" air.

So sorry , it's damage limitation .

Agreed.....

I get Soooooo annoyed when slow boats luff like crazy to try and force you to go below them (sailing upwind) when you are a boat length or 2 away from them - at which point you are committed to going above so you sheet in to climb higher and they luff even more (so slowing them selves down).  Why why why....

THey slow you down and so get much more dirty air.  I/we are travelling 2 or 3 times as fast up wind, just let us go.  Doh.....

If you force us below you, you get major backwinding from our sails as we go underneath you in your dirty air and then we climb back across the front of you wehen we get back into free air. 

Gone are the days when Cats don't point.  Learn this please.

[strop over]

 

 

 



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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 1:58pm

I have to say that it does pay to have a bit of a reputation for luffing people across the lake. It does tend to discourage them from trying it on. Once you have gained their 'repsect' quite often just a small course change to windward as they approach full on will be enough to persuade them to go off to leeward or at least keep well clear.

At my local club it does tend to be between the Phantoms and the Lasers and despite what everyone says I hate letting them go past to windward because you get their dirty air and you will lose out more then you will gain by giving them an easy ride through (to a point).

Although it is nice when someone in front does an extreme luff and you can quietly slide past both of them and get inside at the next mark.

Paul

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 05 at 5:29pm

Paul,

[quote]I have to say that it does pay to have a bit of a reputation for luffing people across the lake. It does tend to discourage them from trying it on. Once you have gained their 'repsect' quite often just a small course change to windward as they approach full on will be enough to persuade them to go off to leeward or at least keep well clear.

But you are slowing your self down EVEN More buy forcing fast boats that point to go below you.  In these cases in clear air my boat will easliy outpoint most Mono's as I have 2 long thin plates in the water.  If you slow me down as I go above you wou will just have me there for longer.  If you do something real silly and I then go below you, you will

1, get a massive back wash from my sails as I go below you

2, even more dirty air as I then return to my proper course and then climb back above you - this will happen and so you get a double wammy.  If you just let us go we are out of the way in a few seconds.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 05 at 6:27am
Assumes you are doing this upwind...if you are reaching at the time why would you then climb back up above the slower boat?
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 05 at 11:22am

When reaching it's just about irrelivant for cats vs other boats without kites up.

We can also usualy point higher than othewr kited boats when we've got ours up too.

In any breese we are going sooo much faster we can jsut blast past and forget you.  Can be very funny when people do luff you as they just get filled up with water from the bow wave as we go past

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