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YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6649 |
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Topic: YouthSailing, the RYA and Catamarans Posted: 03 Nov 07 at 10:04pm |
That was the IOC, not ISAF. They decided to give Sailing an extra medal which was to the Star's benefit. I guess that's a good argument for throwing the Olympic coffin out - its the only class that might be able to create a big enough lobby for to get an extra medal again. |
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Jon Emmett
Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 985 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 07 at 9:00am |
In an idea world ISAF would get the IOC to extend sailing but unfortunately this is unlikely to happen.
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Stuart O
Really should get out more Joined: 22 Jul 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 1:27pm |
The womens committe decide not to back the multihull in their top 5 but have voted for the status quo if only 4 non-open classes are voted in, however they have gone for match racing
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Jon Emmett
Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 985 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 07 Nov 07 at 6:58pm |
The events for the 2012 Olympic Sailing Competition are the main focus of the day at the ISAF Annual Conference as the Event Committee meet in Estoril, Portugal.
The ISAF Events Committee is tasked with recommending to the ISAF Council the events to be used for the Olympic Sailing Competition. The events are selected five years ahead of the Olympic Games, so at this Annual Conference the decision is for the ten events for the 2012 Olympic Sailing Competition. The ISAF Council will make the final decision on the ten events in their meeting from 8-10 November – the Events Committee are affectively ‘the experts’ and their recommendation will help inform the Council’s decision. The ISAF Council, at the 2007 ISAF Mid-Year Meetings, had decided on a split of six male/open events and four female events, and drawn up a list from which the ten events could be selected (click here to see the Council minutes): Men - Select six events from Windsurfer One person dinghy One person dinghy heavy Two person dinghy Two person dinghy high performance Keelboat Multihull - open or men Women - Select four events from Windsurfer One person dinghy Two person dinghy Two person dinghy high performance Keelboat Multihull Like the Women’s Sailing Committee yesterday, the Events Committee broke the decision on the ten events down into several stages. First up was the decision on the discipline of the women’s keelboat event (if selected): match or fleet racing. The Events Committee mirrored the decision of the Women’s Sailing Committee and decided on match racing. The voting process went through several rounds. First of all the multihull option was rejected from the women’s slate. Next up the keelboat (match racing) missed out. In the men’s events, the voting process ended with a choice between the two person dinghy and the keelboat to fill the sixth event slot. The two person dinghy won the day, making the Events Committee recommendation to Council for the following events: Windsurfer - men One person dinghy - men One person dinghy heavy - men Two person dinghy high performance - men Two person dinghy - men Multihull - open Windsurfer - women One person dinghy - women Two person dinghy - women Two person dinghy high performance - women So we will know by next week if there is going to be Mulithulls in the 2012 games but so far things look good (unless you sail a keelboat!) Edited by Jon Emmett |
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TornadoSail2012
Newbie Joined: 03 Oct 07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 39 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 24 Nov 07 at 9:28pm |
Editorials The Olympic event selection by the ISAF Council and the America's Cup steelcage death match continue to dominate the editorials this week... On the ISAF Olympic Selections: * From Simon Morgan, Former Hobie 16 National Champion and ISAF Worlds competitor, Founder Wildwind Sailing Holidays, and co-incidentally son of Tony Morgan Silver Medallist 1964 Tokyo Olympics, two man Flying Dutchman class: Since Scuttlebutt Europe's weekend edition much prompted at least some defence of ISAF's controversial decision, (Paul Henderson, Jack Dinelli et al) I would like to follow up their comments: First of all I can have every sympathy with Mr Henderson's view that it is 'ridiculous to blame ISAF, which is only the structure wherein the votes are cast' - 'ISAF is only as good as the delegates nominated by their National Authorities.' However, Mr Henderson also writes 'that the process is now open and how each delegate voted is public'. This would perhaps not appear to be the case when analysing the vote of the Council to reject the recommendations of its Executive Committee, when an electronic vote was made and no record of how members voted appears to have been recorded. And no one from ISAF has explained this decision. Why bother having an Events Committee then? If I am not mistaken, the IOC themselves offer pretty specific guidelines as to how choose Olympic events and this seems largely to have been ignored. ''the following principles should be reflected in the general composition of the Olympic Programme" "Similar events...should be avoided" - Why then vote for two types of double-handed dinghies for both men and women rather than a single type of Multihull for either men or women? "Global public and media interest in a sport must be considered as key elements... for these are fundamental elements in the success of the Games" - Why then vote against Multihulls, which are certainly the fastest Event in the Sailing Regatta and in general opinion also the most exciting to watch? "Weight category events should not be allowed, except for the combat sports and for weightlifting" - Since sailing falls into neither of these exceptions, why vote for an Event, specifically described as 1 Person Dinghy (Heavy)? Specific guidance for ISAF is given in paragraph 3.1.4, "It was noted that the Keelboat class are very expensive boats and demand costly infrastructure for Olympic competition, and for general practice and development in comparison to other classes. Therefore, if the Executive Board recommends the reduction in the number of athletes and events, the Commission believes these reductions could be made through the exclusion of keelboat sailing events" Why then specifically disobey an unambiguous guideline and vote to exclude Multihulls instead? It has also been mentioned (rumoured?) that a number of representatives on Council voted against the recommendations of their own National Authorities. IF even ONE of these had changed the votes then the voting would have been tied; with two.....a clear cut decision in favour with the multihull would have followed. My real beef is not with the keelboat class per se, even though that appears to be the second least popular class amongst delegates. It is that is seems totally unreasonable to have two singlehander and two two man dinghies at the expense of the multihulls - and the fact that Ben Ainslie managed to jump from the Laser to the Finn and win Gold in both classes seems to be a very real argument against the necessity for such doubling up. My real complaint has to be that somehow ISAF's Council members on this occasion, whatever their good intentions, have not represented in any real way the views of their constituents, the sailing public. Perhaps if one good thing will come out of this whole sorry saga it will be a top to toe re-examination of just how Council members are selected and how more true democracy can find its way into top level decision making. One last point; as of 2030 GMT Tuesday 20th November some 4250 signatures have added their names to the petition to the IOC requesting the re-instatement of the multihull class. While Mr Henderson says that 'all hell breaks loose' every time there is a change of class I severely doubt that decisions by previous Councils have in fact found so much public disagreement. Furthermore, to put those numbers in perspective (even though I have said that I am not specifically against the keelboat class) those 4250 signatures gathered in 10 days compare with one half of all the Sail numbers issued to the Star class since 1911. Yes folks, the Star was designed nearly 100 years ago ... and we are dropping the multithull! There really can be no wonder why there has been and will continue to be such a furore until this issue is settled in a more sensible fashion. * Carolijn Brouwer found time from her busy Tornado training schedule in Sydney to write to SailJuice with her views on what happened two weeks ago in Estoril. You could read the frustration between the lines of what Laser Radial sailor Laura Baldwin wrote a few days ago. Here, Carolijn is much more explicit with her feelings. By the way, a quick reminder that Carolijn finished runner-up in the Tornado World Championships this year, showing the men the way round the track in the manliest of weather conditions. So this is a girl who knows what she's talking about: I was gutted after the ISAF meeting in Estoril. I felt empty, confused and especially useless. I am a member of the Events Committee but at this moment I truly don't really know what I'm doing there and whether it has any meaning. Of course I'm very disappointed ISAF kicked out the Multihull and is taking a huge step backwards in sailing by not including the High Performance dinghy for Women. They are too scared to take a possible risk and move forward. But most of all, I am disappointed about the Events selection procedure. The members of the Events Committee have been chosen by their MNAs because they are the so called experts in the issues/areas that involve Events, including Olympic Games and Olympic Event Selection. The normal procedure is that the voting on respective issues that involve Events is done on our Committee and we then put them forward as a recommendation to Council. Council usually accepts our recommendation. This time however they just chucked it out the window and started all over again. So, what are we actually doing there as an Events Committee if our expertise is not being used anyway? This is really disappointing and to be honest I don't understand what ISAF is doing. It's frustrating being part of it, and having the feeling that you are completely useless. It's not about the sailors, it's about the blazers. So many people have told me already, don't try and understand, it's a waste of time. And I still keep thinking I can make a difference in there. The past week I have been on the verge of resigning from the Committee. But that would be giving up. We need more active sailors on the committees, not less. I have a very straightforward, simple and symmetric opinion of how easily we can have only ten events for sailing in the Olympics and still cover the whole range that our beautiful sport has to offer: - Singlehanded Men/Women It doesn't have to be difficult, it can be easy. Carolijn's full editorial on SailJuice.com: * Yachting Australia has expressed both disappointment and concern over the decision taken last week by the ISAF Council to drop the Multihull from the list of events for the 2012 London Olympic Games. Yachting Australia delegates supported the retention of the multihull event throughout the ISAF Annual Meetings which took place in Estoril, Portugal from 3-11 November. ISAF was challenged with reducing the number of Olympic events from 11 in 2008 to 10 for 2012 in Weymouth. "To not include the multihull in 2012 is to disenfranchise a large part of the sport of sailing," says Phil Jones, CEO of Yachting Australia and member of the ISAF Events Committee, which recommended that the multihull should be retained. "The speed and excitement of catamarans is a real draw to young people. They are the speed machines of sailboat racing. Whilst there is only a limited number of countries involved in the Tornado Olympic Class, multihull sailing is an attractive and truly global part of the sport." ISAF has been heeding the clear message from the International Olympic Committee (IOC) over recent years that for the sport to maintain its place on the Olympic Program it must take steps to become more attractive to the media and the public. Changes to the format of the competition have been made and a World Cup Series has been agreed in effort to ensure more regular exposure for Olympic sailing. "Catamaran racing is fast and comes across as really exciting," says Phil Jones. "The Tornado is one of the most telegenic boats in the Olympic Regatta. The boats are big enough to carry on board cameras and tracking devices that can really bring the contest to life for the viewer. To not have a place for it, or another multihull, is a real step backwards for a sport that has the challenge of building its profile. For us, there was just no focus on the bigger, long-term picture." Yachting Australia is also concerned over the process by which the multihull was excluded. The ISAF Council voted to change the process recommended for the selection of the events. This meant that there was no "run-off" vote between the Multihull and the Keelboat. "There was no real discussion over the implications of the change. It altered the fundamental principles of the recommended system." says Phil Jones. "Some consider that the change, which was taken on a motion from the floor, was taken with undue haste. Certainly many around the Council did not seem to appreciate the full implications of the change. Those that used their first vote to support other events may well have backed the multihull over the keelboat had they had the opportunity. This change denied them this opportunity. I am sure that having had time consider the implications, many will recognise that the change, put forward as a mere simplification, was much more than this." Yachting Australia is concerned over the reaction to the ISAF Council decision. "We understand that some will be very disappointed but the personal and vitriolic attacks that we have seen do nothing to help the cause of those making them. In fact, they only do damage. Yachting Australia does not consider this type of reaction appropriate in any way." Yachting Australia is considering what further action, if any, can be taken to revisit the decision. "However much we might disagree, if we felt the decision had been properly considered and made with those around the table fully understanding the implications, we would accept it. Obviously we don't consider that this is the case. We shall be discussing the issue with colleagues from other countries and IOC representatives over the next few days before deciding how we proceed." |
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Chew my RS
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 2:05pm |
Interesting comments from John Derbyshire in the Sailjuice blog. It seems to me the RYA are very upset that the Women's High Performance Skiff didn't get in, and slightly upset that the multihull was dropped. The RYA stance seems to be that the WHPS would act as a means of retaining those girls that sail 29ers and allow a smooth progression from youth sailing to elite adult sailing. The RYA support for the cat appears somewhat weaker, as the RYA do not perceive there to be a cat youth scene to progress from, and therefore an Olympic cat does not encourage people (women in particular) to take up (or keep at) sailing. Now personally I don't see why a catamaran feeder class needs to be a multihull, but clearly the RYA does. So a decent youth cat seems to be a priority. And an alternative Olympic cat to the Tornado, which, like it or not, just isn't popular enough with the people that matter. As I see it there are only three or foursuitable International catamarans - the Hobie 16 and 18, the Topcat K1 and the Tiger. Maybe someone needs to design a new Olympic cat, and whilst they're at it produce a scaled down youth version (at least ione that looks visually similar so that they are clearly the same brand)? |
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http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK
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Worthy
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 511 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Nov 07 at 2:28pm |
If you included a few more suitable cats in your list eg F16, F18 etc I couldn't agree more. Have you seen the new Nacra 500? It is a pimping little boat and would be perfect for the youths. |
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markp
Groupie Joined: 14 Jun 06 Location: Mumbles Y.C Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 07 at 3:59pm |
Phill Brander is designing this little beauty. If the link doesn't work it's on the Catsailor Open Forum 'One for the Kids'
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Numbe r=125870&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=3 |
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MP*MULTIHULLS
The UK F16 Dealer http://www.mp-multihulls.co.uk |
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catmandoo
Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 545 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 07 at 5:06pm |
its so good it makes feel like procreating so I can get more nippers and build em one !!!!!!
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Black no sugar
Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 04 Location: Somewhere between Brighton and Lancing Online Status: Offline Posts: 3941 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 28 Nov 07 at 5:21pm |
Waaay too much info !
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