New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: International Moth
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

International Moth

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6649
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: International Moth
    Posted: 14 Dec 04 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Skiffman

on the subject of international moths, how much is it to build a hull ofr one from carbon??? Im thinking next year of building one so I can use it in my A2 physics coursework!!


I was thinking of getting a National twelve or merlin mast or maybe even making one out of pre peg carbon. Then getting a windsurf sail.


Has anyone else done this, if you have how hard was it?


PS i dont know the design name but its the one were you make sheets of carbon foam sandwich then put it together afterwards.



You don't need to use prepreg to make a mast, you can do a wet layup provided you vacuuum bag. A mast is a very serious laminating job, best to do the boat first to get the practice.

For Moth Plans Bloodaxe Boats do a CD complete with building information, photos, tips and all sorts of other stuff.

For cost of materials you just have to join the Moth Mailing list, plenty of knowledge there. For How-Tos on construction etc, boats and masts, go to the Cherub Website Tech Support section.
Back to Top
Blobby View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 May 04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 779
Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 04 at 12:29am
As far as I recall an Aussie moth bought an off the shelf 8m2 windsurfer mast sail and wishbone and used that.  I think the opinion was it was fast upwind and slower downwind than conventional rigs, but I could be wrong.  I think the Aussie moth site had some pictures...
Back to Top
Matt Jackson View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 04
Location: Darlington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 962
Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 04 at 12:52pm
Isn't the sail the same as a Cherub main? That would make finding a reasonable second-hand one easier and stacks better than a winsurf sail - 'Horses for courses' and all that.
Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
Back to Top
BlueMouse View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 07 Dec 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
Post Options Post Options   Quote BlueMouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 04 at 10:13pm

Here's a (definitely unofficial) moth class view:

Boats - the newer pro built ones (Full Force, Fastacraft, Bloodaxe, Thorpe) are all-carbon and pretty much bullet proof. If you're so inclined you can sail them in 30 kts and they won't break. These designs are broadly similar and have been so for several years, so if you can get hold of one it will still be very competitive. On the other hand you can pick up an old ply moth for a few hundred quid - although wider if it's got an alloy mast and no T-foil on the rudder it will be harder to sail than a newer one. As JimC says you'll get handy with the epoxy if you try this route, but it's a cheap way to get started.

Weight - 75kg is OK, some of the current UK regulars are around or more than this (no names, well at least for now...). You'd have trouble with the lightweights downwind in the light stuff but when there's wind you'd be quick. With moths though helm skill level matters much more than weight or boat design.

Sailing them - OK it's harder than a 'normal' boat but it's by no means impossible. It's a bit like learning to sail a windsurfer - you need to start out in a steady F2 to learn how to balance it, and only then move on to more (and less!) wind. Most experienced sailors in a decent boat can reach back and forth first time out under these conditions without too many problems. Basically you need to get the feel of using much more sheeting and steering to keep the boat level rather than moving your weight. I've seen a fair few people have problems though when they get a moth, get really keen and go out every weekend whatever the weather. So they go out in a gusty F4-5, capsize 20 times and give up cos they think they can't do it. But no-one can do that when they start, you have to learn the reactions in easier weather. If you're reasonably fit, have some sense of balance and stick at it then you'll get there.

Speed - so is it worth the effort of learning to sail one? Well...

Originally posted by Rob.e

why not try an RS300? They rate almost exactly the same as the non foil moth, and they are so responsive and fast!!

The 300 is a good boat but our experience is the int. moth leaves it behind in F3+. On a reach the light weight (under 28kg all up) means it accelerates way faster than anything else on a gust or waves - it's faster downwind than an RS600 in these conditions. Upwind in F3-4 you're slightly slower than the 600 but not by much - the technique is to foot off and go for speed with as much windward heel as you can. Also once you can sail it in the light stuff, in a real drifter you reach a point where the moth will pick up on a tiny gust when everything else just sits there, so you can have fun beating RS800s etc. on the water. Almost makes up for the pain in your knees!

 

Back to Top
Chris Noble View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 04
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 710
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Noble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 04 at 10:37pm
the handicaps on the 1990 to late 90s boats is amazing for handicap racing also.
Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine

FOR SALE:

I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list.
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 04 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by Wave Rider

"Hi,

In a few years i would like to buy a second hand international moth and was wondering a few things:

I obviously wouldnt start off using foils so are moths still fast when they dont have foils??"


I'm not a Mothie but I sail against them sometimes and know many of the guys so the info below may help.

The non-foilers are really quick when well sailed. Down here in Australia, the Mothies reckon they should have a yardstick of about 100 (without foils) instead of their true 106. 29er is 100, 470 101, 505 97, B 14 96.5, Int. Canoe 92, Contender 106 IIRC

The top guys (triple world champ Mark Thorpe etc) do best in a breeze, when they can go upwind with things like 16' skiffs, LW Sharpies (19'er with yardstick about 97), and reach like stink; on a good reach they go through Sharpies, FDs etc. The Moth only loses out on the square runs, according to Mark.

I've seen Mark beat the 3 time world Flying Dutchman champ "Fred" McCrossin home after starting 5 minutes later. Mark shared the same start with 2 time world Contender champion Arthur Brett and the Contender didn't see which way the Moth went (in open sea and 15 knots or so). This is not a one-off but a fairly consistent performance with each class represented by multiple world champs.

"I am only about 75 kilograms so am i heavy enough for one (my sailing club seems to hardly ever have below a force 2/3)???"

Mark is a lot lighter; his brother Les (2nd in the world) is maybe 75-80 and wishes he were lighter.

"Are they INCREDIBLY hard boats to sail???"

The newer narrow Moths are MUCH easier to sail than the old Magnum-type fat skiffs. Hard to sail? How do you define that? I reckon they're harder than an International Canoe.


"And lastly do things break easily on them because if things were constantly breaking i would not be able to afford to keep one going! "

It depends. Good carbon boats seem to last. Thorpe's Hungry Tiger has won the last 3 worlds and looks to be in fine nick. I saw Chris Dey's Hotblack Desiato (which won the worlds about 5 years ago?????) a couple of days ago and it's fine; Chris is doing this year's worlds on it.

 

Thanks

Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 04 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Isn't the sail the same as a Cherub main? That would make finding a reasonable second-hand one easier and stacks better than a winsurf sail - 'Horses for courses' and all that.


I had a long chat a while ago with the guy who makes sails for many of the top Aussie Moths (Rohan etc). He (Andy McDougall) was a former Moth worlds runner-up, a succesful windsurfer sailor, and a very succesful maker of sailboard sails.

Andy reckons that he has used many ideas from windsurfer sails in Moths, and the two are now quite similar. The windsurfer style fits Moths well, because they are very easily driven and have no planing hump. Therefore, the low drag/low power windsurfer style sail works very well for Moths. It wouldn't work with something like a Cherub, which needs power and can accept extra drag to get it. So Moth sails are very different from Cherub sails and very similar to windsurfer sails.
Back to Top
fizzicist View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Post Options Post Options   Quote fizzicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 04 at 10:56pm

Like Rob E says - get a 300. it's not as fast as a moth but it's cheap, bulletproof, testing to sail but has enough stability to actually be useable in really lightwinds, the handicap is quite favourable and they're a top laugh to sail.

After ten years in Lasers, and having won a lot of club level series, the 300 has been a real wake up call - after 6 months in a 300 I have learned more than I did in the last 6 years of Laser sailing. It's a fantastic boat. Certainly has love it or hate it looks but it's a joy to sail.

I'd recommend a test sail in one anytime. I'm sure most 300 sailors would gladly loan their boat for an hour or so.

Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital
ingredient in beer.
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6649
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 04 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by fizzicist

Like Rob E says - get a 300.



Now I like the RS300, and its a nice easy to sail club boat. But comparing it to an International Moth is like comparing a Ford Mondeo to a Ducati 900! Also sadly it looks as if the 300 is dying off.
Back to Top
fizzicist View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 06 Aug 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Post Options Post Options   Quote fizzicist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 04 at 12:22pm

The 300 had a tricky couple of years because LDC in their infinite wisdom sold as a boat that was really easy to sail and you didn't need to hike much. Which frankly, is a load of cobblers. It's demanding and you have to move your weight around a great deal.

However, it would seem as though boats are finding their way into the hands of keen owners, the class association although small, is very friendly and very keen to push the class forwards.

The best thing about the 300 though is the fact that it is great fun to sail and cheap. I paid £2000 for a two year old boat which is near new condition.

Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital
ingredient in beer.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy