New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Starboard Tack Parade
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Starboard Tack Parade

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
redback View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1502
Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Starboard Tack Parade
    Posted: 05 Dec 04 at 9:41pm
The tide was with us so I reasoned most starboard tackers would overstand the widward mark, and they did.  We came in at about 3 boat lengths down on port, there was quite a parade and no gaps so we wanted to tack to leeward.  Nice theory but we had a boat also on port on our port quarter (not overlapped I think).  We hailed we had to tack to avoid the right of way boats and did, but so did he and this prevented us from falling off on our new tack.  Our almost head-to-wind position meant that we luffed the entire starboard tack parade who were not pleased.  We at least did not collide with any of them but I ever-so-gently rafted up against the boat on our left since I thought he was the culprit - was he?  Incidently he snuck off round the mark and left all the confusion behind to gain an unassailable lead and win the race.
Back to Top
Phil eltringham View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: England/Hitchin
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1105
Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 9:53am

I think the other boat on port is in the wrong here, he should have allowed you room to complete your tack.  He also would have had no luffing rights to push you up and make room for himself at the mark.  However if when you completed your tack you were withing two boatlengths or overlaped with a starboard boat that was, then you and hence the other port boat had no rights at the mark and should have waited for a gap, or at least untill a boat wchich was clear astern of you when you tacked caught up as you would be allowed inside of them (provided you could still shoot the mark). 

I think this is right but if I'm wrong do tell because I have a bad habit of ending up on the port layline. 

FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
Back to Top
john.d.knight View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jul 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 42
Post Options Post Options   Quote john.d.knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 1:24pm
I think this hinges on whether you can call for water to tack on a starboard call as you can on obstructions. In my personal opinion, if I was the boat behind you, I would have expected you to bear away and reach down the line of startboard boats until you found a gap. Unfortunately for you, you got yourself trapped between starboard calls and tacking in someones water. I would suggest that your only defence would be if you had a boat to lee which would prevent you from bearing away.
Pain is just weakness leaving the body.
Back to Top
ChrisJ View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 07 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 330
Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 1:42pm

Not so. If there is a boat on starboard, and you are approaching on port, you have to keep clear. If you have another boat on your port quarter, so preventing you from tacking, you can call for water to tack on the right of way boat. If in tacking to avoid you he has to tack earlier than he would want to, and thus can not make the mark, thats his fault not yours. He still has to keep clear of you once you have called for water.

 

If you have called for water, and he has prevented you from making / completing the tack (which he almost certainly has, 'cos you rafted up against him), then he is in the wrong and should be out. If I was one of the starboard boats who you had to luff, then I would get you both thrown out for having a collision without anyone accepting penalties.

Back to Top
redback View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1502
Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 6:21pm

I think ChrisJ is right.    But to add detail, I was outside the 2 boats lengths of the mark - although I'm not sure that is pertinent.  What I believe is pertinent is that the starboard tackers were sailing lower than close hauled due to a favourable tide.

All was settled amicably in the bar except for the other port tacker who was roundly condemed.

Back to Top
Harry44981! View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 736
Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 6:38pm
i think you are allowed to luff up past a close hauled course if you join outside the 2 boat lengh circle. Btw my opinion is very often in no way related to the racing rules of sailing
Back to Top
redback View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1502
Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 7:00pm
I think it was in 2001 that the rule changed so that the starboard tacker does not have to sail above close hauled until the port tacker has completed their tack and given time and opportunity to keep clear before luffing.  Previously you could tack under somebody and they had to keep clear with a luff if necessary.
Back to Top
Garry View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 536
Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 7:30pm
You have the right to water if you have to make a substantial alteration of course to avoid an obstruction rule 19.1. A starboard tack boat is an obstruction to a boat on port, see definition of obstruction. Tacking at a mark 18.3 only appluies if the tack is completed within the two length zone. You aquire right of way over windward boats when your tack is completed, rule 13, that is once you are on a close hauled course. The boats on starboard do not have to start to keep clear until your tack is complete, rule 15 and you must give them the opportunity to keep clear i.e. luff slowly, but you can go as high as head to wind if you wish (in most of these cases)<the situation is very different if you completed the tack within the two lengths circle>. It would seem the other boat was in the wrong - however, you would have needed to see the situation early enough for the other boat to give you room and to substatiate your claim that he didn't would have needed you to call for water twice.

BTW a nifty trick if you wish to tack for a starboard boat but don't want him to sail over you is to tack to leeward get the boat moving and then luff slowly. They don't like it but nearly always tack away.
Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk
Back to Top
iansmithofotley View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Mar 04
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 204
Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 8:16pm

Hi Redback,

I always thought that there was no 'proper course' on a windward leg and you can sail as close or as free as you wish.  If you are on starboard tack, and someone on port tack, tacks infront of you and you have to alter course, to avoid a collision, then they are wrong, however you are not allowed to bear away on them on purpose, whilst they are completing their tack. The same would apply on port tack with a starboard boat tacking 'in water'.

I think that in the circumstances described, the problem was not anticipating the situation soon enough, and calling early, your need to tack for starboard boats. You can't just shout and tack without having given the windward boat a chance to complete his manoeuvre.  Sometimes, in a big fleet and there is a long string of starboard tackers, many upwind of others, there is no way through and without blasting off wind until you can tack after the last one, and join them, then the only option is to tack underneath them. The boat on port, to windward of you, should also have anticipated what was going to happen and seen that you would need to tack. Once you have made your call to the upwind boat, the onus is upon him to act. If he refuses to act then your only options might be to bear away and gybe round, slow down or sail low to give yourself room and then tack, then protest the windward boat.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

Back to Top
Scooby_simon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2413
Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 10:31pm

If you are on starboard tack, and someone on port tack, tacks infront of you and you have to alter course, to avoid a collision, then they are wrong,

Not quite so.  The correct situation would be :

If you are on starboard tack, and someone on port tack, tacks infront of you and has not completed their tack and you have to alter course, to avoid a collision, then they are wrong,

Otherwise,, no slower boat could ever tack in front of a faster one.....

F16 GBR 553 - Hungry Monster - For sale
Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
I also talk sport here
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz