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New ISAF rule on quick release harnesses.

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 3:27pm

Your request for further information would require an interpretation of the Racing Rules of Sailing. The process for requesting an interpretation is for your Member National Authority, the Royal Yachting Association, to request such an interpretation directly to ISAF.

My firm belief is that the ISAF have made a major error eith this rule and so are desperatly trying to dis-own it.

If they give an interpretation, and then someone follows this and then gets trapped(and dies or gets hurt) they are in trouble.  All the time they say noting, they can fudge it, and pass it onto the local (RYA) to issue something.  The RYA (rightly in my view as this is a VERY BAD RULE) will not comment. 

This rule is a disaster.  Someone got trapped and died, and this is a knee jerk action.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote bigwavedave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 4:35pm
If you have not already, register with ISAF and then you can post your thoughts about this on their own forum.  I have started a thread there.  With enough pressure we may get a response.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lozza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 4:53pm
link?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote *GM* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 7:26pm

http://www.sailing.org/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?Forum ID=2&TopicID=258&PagePosition=1

You have to register to see it though.

The helpful <cough> comments from ISAF are from one Luissa Smith, the ISAF Director of Development and Information. One hopes she's better at development than she is at information...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 8:53pm

Hope you like it :

For clarification, please be advised that the rule concerning quick release for trapeze or hiking harness - ISAF Racing Rule of Sailing 40.2 - does not come into effect until 1 January 2006.

 

Is the ISAF going to be telling all the harness makers on the 1st Jan 2006 which ones are OK ? 

 

Does the ISAF feel that the harness makers will be able to instantly manufacture x,000,000's of harnesses on Jan 1st 2006 so we can all buy them and so comply with the rule ? 

 

Does the ISAF understand that all harnesses do not wear out at the same rate, if I need a new harness tomorrow, can I buy a discounted one (with the ISAF paying) as it may only be of use to me ‘till Jan 2006 ?

 

I think the answer to all the above is no.

 

Somewhere I read that the ISAF wanted to encourage the poorer nations around the world into sailing, does the ISAF understand this "non answering" of the question  posed above will impact the poorer nations (and poorer sailors) as they cannot afford to buy a new harness, JUST BECAUSE THE ISAF SAYS THEY MUST.

 

Come on ISAF

 

Make a statement about which designs are OK and which are not so we can all go and buy a new harness

 

Or has the ISAF decided this rule is flawed and should be removed.  If so, please do it now.

 

 

 

I propose a new rule.  “all sailors should have a knife attached to their boat that it capable of cutting any webbing (such as catamaran trampolines) and sail sheets (up to 10mm which is the largest I believe is used) attached to the transom of the boat (or Port transom of Catamarans) for the purpose of assisting rescue craft in freeing trapped sailors.    I’ll let you guys sort out the actual wording, you might be good at that.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 9:36pm
Am I naive in thinking the RYA should be championing this on our behalf! Although looking at the last voting information most of the committee seem to be big boat sailors!

In seriousness carrying a knife might actually be a better safety strategy and... could stop helms abusing their crews

Has anyone spoken to harness manufacturers?

What about every trapeze class stand displaying (in large print/posters) something like "New Harness Rule ill considered - Is the RYA doing anything?" at the dinghy show?

Garry

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 05 at 9:49pm

What about every trapeze class stand displaying (in large print/posters) something like "New Harness Rule ill considered - Is the RYA doing anything?" at the dinghy show?

now there is a good idea

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 05 at 4:18am

Read your Y&Y - the RYA is doing something.  They are collecting data and proving that dying as a result of your trapeze harness causing entrapment is a miniscule risk, so we don't need to bother doing anything.  (Mulit mad column, Jan 7th).

Personally I have written to Y&Y and said this is fine but surely the wrong approach.  ISAF will respond saying "the risk may be miniscule but somebody died and it is something that could be prevented so taking action is correct".

After all, if a professional sailor is issued with a harness by his employer or sponsor, it then falls under the Health & Safety at Work Act and big money lawyers get involved with prosectutions etc etc.  End result - trapeze harnesses are inherently unsafe and therefore trapezing should be made illegal...(maybe a slight exageration but not much!)

The fact is there are better solutions - but none are visible in the market place except the Bethwaite ball + socket harness (which will not comply with the new rule as far as I can tell).  The best solution is to prevent the trapeze hook catching on something in the first place.  Having knives or quick release hooks to get released after getting caught is basically a last resort.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 05 at 8:13am
... and completely useless if you happen to be unconcious - a side-effect of the drowning process I'm told.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote catmandoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 05 at 1:18pm

As we all know ISAF are losing the plot on this one .

 

It's interesting to consider wether the unfortunate trapped Tornado sailor would have benefitted from less bouyancy and being able to move in the water more easily , pehaps without the bouyancy I assume he was wearing , he may have been able to get free.

Similarily in other situations where harnesses get caught , surely the constant upwards force from wearing extra bouyancy must tighten line etc and make it far harder to disentangle from underwater rigging .

Most people in dinghy sailing gear are positive bouyant through air in neoprene , clothing , drysuits etc without the excesses of an aid , after all humans are just about bouyant with no help .

 

 

 

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