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New ISAF rule on quick release harnesses.

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 04 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by hurricane

when will be be banned from going sailing???

and do you think that eventually we will be banned from living?

I think that come into effect next tuesday and a week on friday respectively.  

So in the mean time:

Live Fast, Sail Faster!! 

FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
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Spot192 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spot192 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 2:04pm
for the international aspect, i want to ask how much these harnesses cost in the uk. in germany theyīre expensive and you have to add the cost of the sailmaker, who changes your whole trapezeharness. and i also think and i can say from my own experience that the life vests and the type of harness is more dangerous. i started sailing on trapeze at the age of three in a fireball with my dad and till know i hadnīt any problems with the hook.

servus fiona 
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Doctor Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 3:47pm
on a cat, there is a greater danger of getting trapped.
firstly, the large area of the tramp is harder to get out
from and traps no air at all.
secondly, cats have slacker rigging, with some
slackening the rig hugely to depower (Hobie 16), and
it is quite possible to catch the hook round a shroud
and then twist through 360 degrees whilst inverting.
If the rig tightens then, you've had it, and cold fingers
are unable to work out what the hell is going on.

I dont have a quick release jobby yet, but will do with
next upgrade
regards
Dr. Clifford

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Spot192 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Spot192 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 04 at 4:12pm
i know the danger of hooks in the cat scene, several people died even at our little lake because of it and there is no question of buying it. iīll do it too, but i would really prefer deciding it on my own, i wanna do it when i think i really do need it, and its in my point of view also a bit about the money the producers wanna earn. itīs a bad idea to sell the "starting pacage"  with the hook and the release thing (i donīt know the english word), but if you are really at the point to release your hook you have to buy the hook and the release thing, if you lost it, seperate, what costs a lot of money.

servus fiona
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 04 at 9:44pm
I had a look at one today.  Horrible device, it is possible to get something caught behind the release pin and get snagged.  I'd say they are more of a danger than the standard hook.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 3:49am

Isn't this the same thing as the ISAF rule that bans hiking shorts because they have battens in to support your weight further out, that was quickly anulled by a large number of the hiking boat class rules being modified to permit them??

The big danger I see here is that the classes don't have the freedom to tell ISAF they have got it wrong (as with the hiking shorts) because the Insurance companies are going to insist on them and use it as a way of not paying out on genuine claims...

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 04 at 9:56am

There has been a fair bit of talk about changing the class rules to delete ISAF rules (like hiking shorts). The difference is hiking shorts are a 'performance' issue not 'safety' and a class that deletes a 'safety' type rule and subsequently has a fatal accident which could have been prevented by that rule could have some problems, like sailing clubs not accepting open meetings and insurers not insuring that class.

This is why it's important to speak up before this rule is forced on us - there is no way it would be deleted once in force. Like I've said before this is a slippery slope to the over regulation of sailing by the people elected to represent us.

The RYA does have some information on their pages about the issue but their stance does not seem to be against the rule just the wording and implementation...

"It is clearly desirable for competitors and equipment manufacturers that this new rule is interpreted uniformly across the whole world.  The RYA is therefore currently seeking, through ISAF, to establish clear and internationally-accepted guidance on the rule&apos;s implementation and interpretation."

... but they are trying to collate information on entrapment to get a better picture of the problem and I urge those with an experience of entrapment (including those not involving a harness) to fill in their questionaire at  http://www.rya.org.uk/Training/entrapmentquestionnaire/defau lt.asp

and they also have a basic harness review at http://www.rya.org.uk/Training/News.asp?contentId=2602643



Edited by Matt Jackson
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Post Options Post Options   Quote smurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 04 at 9:17pm
before we get carried away, I also kitesurf as well as sail dinghies and we permanently attach ourselves to the kite with a shackle (quick release) so that if we're over-powered or lofted we can release ourselves. Various systems around but I use a wichard shackle which can be released easily. Why couldn't this idea be used for trapezes? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 04 at 11:08pm
The problem is that everyone will have to replace or modify their harness .not a big problem for the keen sailor .
But it is the end for spare harnesses, old harnesses, you can no longer carry your old harness in case your crew forgets theirs, the old harness at the sailing club will probably go in the bin reducing sailing opertunities for beginers. It is a lot of expence and hastle for a not clearly defined risk.
It is legislation without clear regulation.
How is the quick releise system to be tested and qualified? How do you know if the system that you have is leagal?

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 04 at 8:34am

Originally posted by smurfer

before we get carried away, I also kitesurf as well as sail dinghies and we permanently attach ourselves to the kite with a shackle (quick release) so that if we're over-powered or lofted we can release ourselves. Various systems around but I use a wichard shackle which can be released easily. Why couldn't this idea be used for trapezes? 

Yes but how often do you tack a kite? or have to unhook quickly because you're about to capsize to windward? The main reason you don't use a QR shackle is the time taken to unhook - I imagine in an ideal session of Kitesurfing you hook on once and unhook once in a dinghy it's more like 30-100. The current system has been around for a long time with small incremental advances being made (until Bethwaite came along) which are a good compromise between speed of unhooking and the hook staying secure when you want it to.

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