J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
29er GBR 074 Tynemouth |
List classes of boat for sale |
Adults protesting children |
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Author | ||||
john.d.knight
Groupie Joined: 09 Jul 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 42 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: Adults protesting children Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 1:14pm |
|||
I was talking to a friend last night whos 14 yr old had been protested by an adult during club sailing. I don't know the ins and outs of the case but the child was in the protest hearing by himself and he lost the case. It doesn't seem fair that 4 adults can accuse and judge the child without some sort of representation or help for the child, it just seemed that this situation would be so intimidating for most children that it doesn't appear fair. Is this covered by any particular rules or if children are racing with adults they have to be treated like adults?
|
||||
Pain is just weakness leaving the body.
|
||||
Contender443
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Oct 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 1:40pm | |||
I was protested by 2 x 14 year olds and lost. I am now scarred for life. Did they gat an advantage because they were youngsters - I doubt it in this case but I could see it happen. At our club we use the RYA racing charter which is a much less formal way of dealing with incidents. Either way I think representation should be allowed for everyone. |
||||
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
|
||||
422797
Newbie Joined: 19 Sep 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 2:09pm | |||
I think protests need to be taken less personally. Although the child in question lost this protest hearing at his sailing club, surely that is valuable protest room time that may help him win a protest when it really matters whether that is at another club race, a nationals or worlds later in life.
I really hate the can't protest because it is a club race attitude. |
||||
KnightMare
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1682 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 2:14pm | |||
Yeah but you have to work out if the kid even knew the rules at all... If its normal club racing not all of the adults know the rules let alone kids that are there jsut having fun... I know some squad type kids seem to know everything and can get the adults taken out but if its someones first time unless they have had some kind of coahcing they could be well out there in the right and still loose because they dont know what it is they have to prove the ohter boat did/didnt do. I think that in the case of kids who are just generaly out there hvaing a good time and get protested the clubs aught to get a knowledgable sailor (preferably impartial) to just talk the incident through with the kid and say well this is what the rule says/means then at least they go in with some form of even footing... |
||||
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 3:30pm | |||
I doubt if anyone would have objected if the child had someone to help or represent them. AC skippers bring a lawyer or two along...... But really, protests are part of the sport. Consider it as an educational experience.
|
||||
SX Girl
Groupie Joined: 23 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 74 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 3:57pm | |||
surely this is the best way for them to learn the rules then, whilst taking part in club racing with people they know protesting them and judging them? if they don't learn the rules at club level they never will.
I suspect in most clubs (certainly ours) the Protest committee is made up of knowledgeable impartial sailors from the club who do exactly that. and if the child is competent enough to take part in club racing surely it's about time they started learning the rules?
Totally agree. A youngster was protested for excessive pumping recently in our club.(He was the only one who made it anywhere against the tide!) . All his mates hung about at the club to support him and wait for the verdict. When he lost the protest, all the youngsters in club learned that excessive pumping was not acceptable The protest achieved it's purpose - good lesson learned for all of them. |
||||
Guest
Newbie Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 4:03pm | |||
There was only one protester ... the other 3 were the protest committee who would have been impartial so not really that intimidating. I am guessing from your post that the parent of this child is not happy ??? I'd say it's good experience. |
||||
mike ellis
Really should get out more Joined: 30 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2339 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 4:14pm | |||
this sounds interesting, im not actual sure what would happen if i tried to protest someone in a club race at hill head, i dont even know if we have protest forms. a challenge for the weekend methinks.
|
||||
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318 |
||||
KnightMare
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1682 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 5:30pm | |||
Yeah im not saying that the comities arent made up of people like that but i mean before they go into the protest, that way the protest can actual be had like a normal protest with out the comitty having to chime in and say "no but..." I know eveyone should be learning the rules if they are sailing but for a kid (anyone infact) its more important to learn how to sail (and sail well) than to sit and learn rules which seem much more like school than sailing. give them the rules book and u will have lost the interest of all but the most dedicated and will have confused all but the cleverest... some times the best way is to learn through experience but does that mean that each learner has to be disqualifed the same number of times as there are rules to break.... |
||||
SX Girl
Groupie Joined: 23 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 74 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 26 Apr 07 at 5:43pm | |||
That's what i meant Learning through experience is best yes, and rules and protests should be part of that experience in my view. I've never sat down and read the rule book fully (except when I can't sleep) but have a handle on the most used ones by racing with other people and being in situations where they were needed.
I hope not, and as stated earlier, most "Experienced" club racers don't know them all anyway. I was just saying that sometimes it's healthy to have a protest so that the situation is clarified for all, including the children in the fleet. |
||||
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |