Tiller waggling

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   It seems to me that the new rules are a bit more lenient about waggling the tiller to get the bow off the wind.  Not a bad thing, many of these high performance boats have a tendency to go into irons and they can't be muscled into bearing away like say a Laser.  This happens a lot on the start line, now there's a legit way of getting going as long as you don't use it to propel yourself forwards.  Am I right?

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redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Tiller waggling Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 10:35am
	It seems to me that the new rules are a bit more lenient about waggling the tiller to get the bow off the wind. Not a bad thing, many of these high performance boats have a tendency to go into irons and they can't be muscled into bearing away like say a Laser. This happens a lot on the start line, now there's a legit way of getting going as long as you don't use it to propel yourself forwards. Am I right?

Harry44981! Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 736	Post Options Post Reply Quote Harry44981! Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 11:26am
	My understanding is you can jab one direction a couple of times with the tiller, if you're in irons, not when you could sheet in and bear off ie: if you're on a close hauled course on start line. Having said this i was yellow flagged on a startline in the topper inlands this year for two quick jabs to windward when i was head to wind- by apparently an ISAF qualified judge.

bigwavedave Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jun 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 944	Post Options Post Reply Quote bigwavedave Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 1:08pm
	You would have been yellow flagged for sure. The rules this year prevented that action. The new rules that come into force next year would have let you get away with it. When ISAF addressed rule 42 they came down very heavy.


Phil eltringham Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: England/Hitchin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1105	Post Options Post Reply Quote Phil eltringham Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 1:35pm
	Back the jib (grab the car on self tackers) is the safest way, but on a 700/musto skiff where there is not one then i guess the trick is not to get stuck to start with. As for rule 42 i think that the trick would be not to wiggle but to use a series of single sharp movements spaced out so that ther is no net speed gain but simply a progressive change in course. You could also argue that any acceleration is due to you heading on a broarder angle to the wind rather than by the dynamics of the rudder moving.
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FreshScum Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 27 Apr 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 99	Post Options Post Reply Quote FreshScum Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 2:04am
	you are allowed to make to tiller motions to assist your steering in the way that you did. however there must be a change of course as a result of these. its in the isaf rule 42 interpretation guidelines. available on their website

hurricane Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1047	Post Options Post Reply Quote hurricane Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 5:29pm
	isnt there a rule that you are allowed the same amount of forward movement as equivelent to one paddle, but whos paddle would it be stephen redgraves???

Phil eltringham Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: England/Hitchin Online Status: Offline Posts: 1105	Post Options Post Reply Quote Phil eltringham Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 7:39pm
	direct from rule definitions: http://www.sailing.org/rrs2001/42interpretations 42.2 Prohibited Actions Without limiting the application of rule 42.1, these actions are prohibited: (d) sculling: repeated movement of the helm not necessary for steering; INTERPRETATIONS 42–22 Sculling is allowed only when ‘necessary for steering’. This means that no other means of steering is available at the time and such steering results in a clear change of direction. 42–23 Any further connected sculling to offset the first sculling action is prohibited. 42–24 Any sculling (two or more similar movements of the rudder, however small) that does not result in a clear change of direction is prohibited. 42–25 Repeated movement of the helm to offset steering of the boat caused by trimming, such as backing a sail, is prohibited. 42–26 Any sculling continuing once the sail can be filled is prohibited. So in answer to your question, you can scull once or twice but you have to prove that there was a definate change in course and that only the bare minimum of sculling required was used. Edited by Phil eltringham
	FLAT IS FAST! Shifts Happen

hurricane Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1047	Post Options Post Reply Quote hurricane Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 10:21pm
	this is one of these things in our sport where no matter how well it is written down it will still be open to intereptation and people will always look at it in different ways it is something we will just have to put up with!!

sailor girl Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 13 Jun 04 Location: Spain Online Status: Offline Posts: 1031	Post Options Post Reply Quote sailor girl Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Nov 04 at 5:25pm
	and people will always do it
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Harry44981! Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 736	Post Options Post Reply Quote Harry44981! Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Nov 04 at 5:59pm
	unless the jury boats near. Evryone just freezes in light airs when they come past, unless they don't notice them!