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Boats meeting at the leeward mark

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    Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 10:17am

Here's a horrible situation.  Blowing old boots and the fast handicap fleet is catching a bunch of Wayfarers at a leeward mark.  All the boats were coming into the mark on starboard and required to gybe to port to round.  The Wayfarers were on a dead run and we come blasting on port in the 4000 with the crew on the wire.  We are overtaking boat so all we can do is bear away and come in alongside until we get the inside overlap at 2 boat lengths.

Now have you tried sailing a skiff type boat dead downwind in a blow (and trying to drop the kite), yes, you guessed we wobbled horribly, and capsized.  There was such a row of Wayfarers and we were overtaking boat so no rights and no way through.  I din't think Wayfarer sailors realise that boats like the 4000 are barely in control (not in my hands anyway) and they also don't realise that to run is not an option.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 11:15am

Your problem I am afraid, go around the outside.  I/we get this issue all the time in cats(just don't go dead down wind but we wont gop for a swim), you just have to live with it. 

Leave room and go around the out side.  Safer, gives moor room for you to do your stuff.  If the Wayfarers are close to gether they will probably muck each other up anyway and you just sail around them into free air (and dont getr messed up in their silly luffing batches etc at the mark)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 11:18am

This raises lots of questions.

The speed you are travelling at in the L4000 will you not be dropping the kite well before 2 boat lengths to the mark?

2 boat lengths of a L4000  flying a kite must be measured in seconds - so if you come in flying a kite at full speed shouting for the Wayfarer to keep clear you do not give them any chance to do so. Then you are in the wrong for not giving them the opportunity to keep clear - is this not the case.

If you sail a Skiff type boat you need to plan well in advance and anticipate such situations. Dare I say it but you may need to sail round the outside, sail high and leave yourself enough space to bear away or to gybe and drop.

This means that the skiffs have the advantage of speed and the slower boats have the rights which are there to protect them.

Finally perhaps the Wayfarers did know that you can't run and are barely in control and they also know their rights under the rules and used them to their advantage. Mind you it takes a brave sailor to stick to their guns with an almost out of control 4000 looming down on them.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 2:25pm
Yes, no damage done but its sometimes very difficult to plan too far ahead.  The 4000 has about 18sq m of spinnaker, when a gust comes you simply have to bear away so its difficult to thread through a string of boats all running down to the mark.  I'm not kidding in really gusty weather you have to change course by 60 degrees to stay upright in a gust.  Anticipating the worst is probably the answer - its just that I'm an optimist.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 3:17pm

Sounds like you should be sailing on the sea with other L4000's.

Our club has about 5 - why not check us out at

http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 4:37pm
You must know Kate Fitzsimmons, she's crewed for me a couple of times.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 04 at 10:11pm
Yes, regularily seen at the front end of a Laser 2
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Post Options Post Options   Quote FreshScum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 04 at 11:46am

You say that you are overtaking boat and so have no rights.

This isnt quite the case, as the leeward boat you can still sail your proper course, which i assume is an asymetric angle. This is unfortunate for the Wayfarer who will probably accuse you of "luffing" him, but he must keep clear as long as you give him room to do so. 

This only applies once you are overlapped, before this point you are clear astern and so have to keep clear.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 04 at 5:51pm
Hey you're right - rule 11.  The Wayfarer would think I'm luffing him but he must keep clear and protest if he doesn't like it.  All I have to do is not come up under so fast that he can't keep clear.  I wish I'd thought of that at the time!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gmkjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 04 at 6:46pm

There are two issues, one is establishing the overlap in a way that gives the Wayfarers an opportunity to keep clear, and the second is making sure that they know that they have an obligation to stay clear.

A second concern is that when "its blowing old boots" (and that's a situation not often seen here in SoCal), Rule 18 may apply further than 2 lengths from the mark, because the rule includes a "possible to give room" exception, that does not give the overtaking boats room, when it is not possible for the outside boats to make room.

The remedy is to start hailing early, and be prepared to slow down or take avoiding action early on.

 

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