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E.J.
Posting king Joined: 19 Feb 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 184 |
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Topic: Hiking or Wiring Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 5:33pm |
If they are at the top of the rope then the standard cleat with the additional eye is about all there is. I’ve alway gone for 2:1 when it’s at the top, but to combat the extra rope required I put a coarse adjust above the handle so I can shorten the actual trapeze line between races and keep a short adjuster.
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 5:42pm |
You also have to ask yourself, how will this feel when it smacks me in the face... because sooner or later it will, and a cam cleat looks like it would hurt quite a bit!
I have about 1m of adjust in my primary adjuster and six inches in the coarse adjust above. I fear if I had more movement in the coarse adjust and less in the primary it would leave my handle very low on windy days and I'm not sure if I'd be able to lift myself up from there.
Edited by mozzy - 19 Feb 18 at 7:19pm |
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eric_c
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 5:44pm |
Single sided cam cleat? RWO Lance cleat?
TBH, I generally like trapeze lines than don't release too easily. |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 6:07pm |
Yup that's the puppy. I still think the form factor of a cam cleat is wrong though, as mozzy says it's gonna smack you in the face eventually.........
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 6:52pm |
There's a double pull strap system that used to be used for kite depower that would ease the issues of uncleating, quite what the range of movement is I need to check but it could be a better solution than traditional jam cleats.
Edited by iGRF - 19 Feb 18 at 6:54pm |
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boatshed
Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Apr 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 457 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 7:34pm |
iGRF, you've also gotta think about whether you will sheet the main straight off the boom and therefore have no mainsheet cleat or whether you take the main through a deck mounted swivel block and (maybe) a jamming cleat. With the Farr is possible to have a 2:1 mainsheet on a rear bridle, sheet off the boom and have enough clearance to swing the tiller extension forward through the tacks, especially if the rudder it on a gantry.
Leading the main to the deck, whether you have a cleat or not, will mean swinging the tiller extension around the back of the boat and that means you too will move backwards and sink the transom in the tacks; which is slow. The Aussies and Kiwis are born being able to helm, tack and trapeze with ease but being born in the northern hemisphere I find tacking a trapeze single hander can lead to multiple opportunities parking up, falling over and to giving your mates a good laugh. To slightly mitigate this, I use a mainsheet cleat (not my teeth) - which really has to be on the deck - because at critical moments, it leaves both your hands available for the tiller extension and hooking on and off the trapeze hook. |
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Steve
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eric_c
Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 8:59pm |
I don't think it necessarily follows. To swing the extension around the back implies no mainsheet at the end of the boom at all, like a 600. Any sort of stern bridle or laser style traveller means either a very short extension, twin extensions or taking the extension forwards in tacks. Obviously, taking the extension forwards means it has to fit behind any lines from boom to deck, whether that's kicker or sheet. Maybe the mainsheet could run forward along the boom, even right to the gooseneck, then back to a cleat.Maybe via a second block at the base of the mast. Some yachts do that, often double-sided with a winch either side. When I had a go with a trapeze singlehander, as a newbie, yes I used the main cleat a fair bit. But maybe it would have been better to learn without a cleat. But that would have meant sorting out all those thing you need to cleat the main for, ashore. ISTR cleating the main for such purposes as re-tying my harness, sorting controls etc... I don't know how the Farr behaves, but what I see of 600's, getting your weight forwards while tacking is absolutely key, otherwise it wants to go in irons, the centre main bridle is not your friend here. ISTR 'Punk' had an alternative solution? For my 2p, off the boom is the way, once you've re-learned. It's like learning centre sheet after olde-worlde transom sheeting though! (or maybe sailing a vintage Firefly if you have only ever used centre main?) |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 9:14pm |
From my experience taking the main sheet as a helm in the 800 last time I sailed one it would be almost impossible to sail well without a cleat... and that's coming from someone who hates cleats!
Just look at this video of Steve Cockerill, no doubt a very good sailor, trying to take the main from the boom as a trapezing helm. Watch just a couple of manoeuvres (e.g. first tack at 2:00) and frankly it looks a mess. Boom sheeting (when trapezing) only works if the crew takes the main. Once you've got a cleat on the deck, you might as well free up the stern and take the tiller round the back. An extension long enough to trapeze with going forward will be a handful (if possible), it's either round the back or twin tillers with a stern bridle. But twins are very prone to damage by another boat. It's telling that in 800s (pre-crew taking the main) they had the option of twin tillers and stern bridle, but almost no one took it up. Edited by mozzy - 19 Feb 18 at 9:29pm |
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Dave.B
Newbie Joined: 03 Mar 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 38 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 9:48pm |
It's definitely possible to helm the Farr taking the sheet from the boom without a cleat. That's how I've set mine up from the start. Having no deck cleat allows the extension to pass forward and also allows hand over hand sheeting in front of you, rather than holding the main in your front hand and the extension in the other up by your ear. As you step out to wire you naturally sheet in and vice versa - no probs ! Mind you doing this with a kite would be quite the challenge :)
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H2 148
H2 113 RS300 365 Farr 3.7 397 Build Blog http://davesfarr37project.weebly.com/ |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Feb 18 at 9:57pm |
I stand corrected!
Obviously what makes it difficult in the 800 is not being able to take the extension in front of you and therefore hand over hand sheet. But... the other difficult thing is getting the sheet tension right as you go in. Normally you would want to keep tension, or increase tension for entry, then dump sheet mid tack. Is it not hard to do that as when you move in you loose all sheet tension?
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