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Another PY question..(pumping content)

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another PY question..(pumping content)
    Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 10:33am
So, if a class decides to permit *pumping this will presumably have an affect on the handicap?

And therefore in order to sail to that handicap, will that mean we would have to pump at club level?







*Following a recent decision by the RS Aeros

Edited by iGRF - 18 Dec 17 at 6:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stevie_GTI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 10:50am
Wasnt it just permitted an RS Aero only event?

Normal handicap racing would prevent pumping so the handicap wouldnt be effected?
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 10:51am
Class pumping rules only apply at class events
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 11:35am
Exactly so....but if it were permitted in handicap events and resulted in a performance increase then we would expect to see that reflected in results, and therefore in returns, and therefore in a PY reduction.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 11:49am
Other things like max and minimum wind strengths, number of penalty turns, touching marks, pumps per wave tend to be covered in standard class sailing instructions, so that as soon as you're racing in none 'class' races you fall back in to the same rules as everyone else. 


Anything that is in your class rules applies all the time though; if you enter as a Laser, it must measure as described in the class rules. whether racing on PY, class racing at a club, or a world championships. That includes rules about how the boat can be sailed.

Where pumping is in class rules, (edit) it's controlled via Appendix P, which would require it to be in the SIs and for the Race Committee to then control it by raising O flag. So unlikely to ever happen, but possible I guess. I doubt anyone cares what it does to handicap though

Class rules sometimes make changes to the weight and type clothing that can be worn as well which again apply all the time.  



Edited by mozzy - 18 Dec 17 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 12:07pm
Edit... the RS Aero class rules only allows pumping, when the Race Committee fly O flag, where permitted by the SI's... seems a pointless class rule to me. Might as well just include it in the standard SI's for class events. 

Further edit... Appendix P only is in effect if the SIs say so, no matter what class. So unless the handicap race has this in the SIs it's a none issue. Does beg teh question why either class has mention of this in their class rules, if it always has to be in SIs anyway. Surely it would be better to just stick it in the standard class SI's that event organisers can rip off the class website if running a class event.   https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/rules?part_id=41

470 Class... no mention of SIs, but the RC would still need to fly the O flag for it to happen in any handicap racing. 
C.1.1 RULES
(a) The following RRS 2017-2020 rules shall apply as amended below:
(1) If the average wind speed is clearly over 8 knots across the course the race
committee may signal in accordance with RRS Appendix P5 that pumping,
rocking and ooching are permitted. This changes rules RRS 42.2(a), RRS
42.2(b), RRS 42.2(c).

RS Aero... allows pumping, but only when in the SIs, so seems a pointless rule.
C.1.1 RULES
(c) RRS 42.3 is changed by adding: “Where stipulated in the SI, if the
average wind speed is clearly over 8 knots across the course the
race committee may signal in accordance with RRS Appendix P5
that pumping, rocking and ooching are permitted, except (i) prior to
the start, and (ii) when the boat is on a leg of the course
designated in the SI as a windward leg.” this changes RRS



Edited by mozzy - 18 Dec 17 at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 12:34pm
The thin end of the wedge ....

When the board racing world legalised pumping it proved to be one of the larger nails in the coffin for it as a truly popular form of racing.  It very quickly killed off club based racing and reduced the 'sport' to 'air rowing' in most conditons.  If you want the 'aerobic challenge' to exceed the cerebal challenge just carry on down this particular path.   When it does much of the current appeal and popularity of dinghy racing will also disappear.

The harsh 'School of unintended consequnces' beckons ...  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 12:38pm
An interesting move by the Aero's there. Any particular reason why as it will probably have the effect of making the fitter, harder working sailors faster downwind which until now has generally been seen as a 'bad' thing apart from in the Finns?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

The thin end of the wedge ....

When the board racing world legalised pumping it proved to be one of the larger nails in the coffin for it as a truly popular form of racing.  It very quickly killed off club based racing and reduced the 'sport' to 'air rowing' in most conditons.  If you want the 'aerobic challenge' to exceed the cerebal challenge just carry on down this particular path.   When it does much of the current appeal and popularity of dinghy racing will also disappear.

The harsh 'School of unintended consequnces' beckons ...  

+1 here to that. I was opposed to pumping when it was legalised for windsurf racing (though it didn't stop me racing Raceboards and I learned how to do it pretty competitively at regional level). I'm 30 years older now and inevitably less fit so the cerebral aspects of dinghy racing hold much more appeal again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 17 at 1:07pm
Aero off Christmas list...
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