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Another PY question..(pumping content) |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Topic: Another PY question..(pumping content) Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 7:41pm |
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Sort of the same thing. The Raceboards were originally known as Pan Am Boards since the Pan Am Cup in Hawaii was the first event with wind minimums - I've got one of Robby's protos for the production board known as the Pan Am. They were then used for World Cup Funboard racing and associated events, again basically offshore reaching races with wind minimums. IYRU Raceboard class grew out of that using the same kit with no wind minimums and later a WW/LW course. Yes, there were issues with offshore racing with a lower wind limit of 15 (later 12) knots - but it was also an issue for those of us who essentially had a class taken over and fundamentally changed into something very different. And surf slalom became downgraded to flat-water slalom, dammit. I did IMCO for a while against the Olympians and yes, we did pump a bit in higher winds, but it was nothing like what happens in light winds which is IMHO just 'orrible.
Edited by Chris 249 - 19 Dec 17 at 7:46pm |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 7:43pm | ||
Completely wrong and once again, insulting. There is basically NO issue with concealed pumping under the current Windsurfer rules. Basically everyone knows that if one person starts to try to pump subtly then everyone will do it. |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 8:25pm | ||
Insulting to who? You? A subterranean Aussi dick. When was the last time you competed in Europe, against say the French, in France? You seriously need to adjust your attitude. Convicts ffs. |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 9:03pm | ||
When you inferred that the recent organisers of the Windsurfer and Kona classes were inefficient and corrupt and favoured certain people you were definitely insulting. The rules work and there is no corruption and little if any cheating; some may happen in the pack. I competed in the Italian titles three years ago and in a local nationals last season, against several Europeans. If your point is that you have recent European experience and I don't then it appears you may well be wrong. And I compete against people who took trophies in world titles where you were firmly mid fleet and completely uncompetitive, and I know they follow the pumping rules, do not cheat them, and are not protected by those running events. Edited by Chris 249 - 19 Dec 17 at 9:30pm |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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E.J.
Posting king Joined: 19 Feb 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 184 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 10:02pm | ||
Mr JimC, I was referring to ‘set and go’ in a relative sense in comparison to air rowing. My point was that free pumping has not turned downwind into ‘shoulders day at the gym’, for Contenders it has actually added an element of technique that Dan rightly points out was already essentially there, now we can just exaggerate it and be blatant however only up to a tipping point where excessive pumping is visably slower.
Timing and skill are still better than gorilla panic in the free pump world of Contenders, so it’s not universally a bad idea, I much prefer it. Upwind pumping is still not permitted Ed |
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iGRF
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6496 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 10:19pm | ||
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 19 Dec 17 at 10:50pm | ||
You referred to two windsurfer classes that still restrict pumping and claimed that people in those classes cheated and/or that the organising bodies favoured people. Of course that it an insult to those classes and those who run them. If you are looking at Italian Windsurfer events as proof that pumping cannot be banned then you are looking in the wrong place -they allow unrestricted pumping! The fact is that your claim they can't prevent illegal pumping in windsurfing competitions is wrong since they can and do, as I have noted within the last few years of racing at national level where they DO restrict pumping. My post was therefore certainly not just saying "you're wrong". It was talking about current experience. You have repeatedly claimed there is corruption in the PY system, your very last post implied corruption or bias in protests in and protest hearings (I have no doubt that you have much more experience in the protest room than I have), and.you have repeatedly abused most of the dinghy sailing world. You have lots of form when it comes to insulting people.
Edited by Chris 249 - 20 Dec 17 at 6:10am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Hector
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Location: Otley, Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 Dec 17 at 12:58am | ||
Windsurfing: No Pumping was allowed in Div 1. At National events, virtually everyone did it to some degree or other. Sometimes the Jury would call someone out for it - seemed pretty random. In regional events, no Jury, and much less pumping, but still a bit - usually by the young 'tyro' who wasn't that tactically sound, but fit. Peer pressure backed up by the occasional protest tended to keep it all under control. Mistral as GrF says allowed pumping at all times. In the UK at least, the Raceboard Class effectively replaced Div1. When the class allowed pumping it was great for those of us who'd honed the necessary skills in the Mistral class - to start with. Then as younger fitter and ultimately better guys came along, it became a nightmare of unbridled effort with virtually no regard for shifts etc. Hopefully the Aero Class isn't actually going down this route - surely they're just having a play at the odd open meeting. |
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Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew) 49er 688 (with Phil P) RS200 968 Vortex (occasionally) Laser 2049XX |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 Dec 17 at 1:47am | ||
That's what seems to happen with the Windsurfer class here. Control by peer pressure and common sense seems to be better than it was many years ago. One suspects that one of the reasons why peer pressure to control pumping could be stronger now that everyone has seen what happens if pumping gets out of control, and since we allow some pumping sailors get to see the downside. Everyone wants to avoid rule bending creeping back in and shredding the tactical aspect as you mention. Even the former world champs and Youth Worlds runners-up don't pump upwind.
Edited by Chris 249 - 20 Dec 17 at 6:12am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 20 Dec 17 at 9:35am | ||
I started racing DIV1 back in the late '70s in the NW and raced against Keith (and his bro. Ian) at many regional opens. The smaller guys like us developed a rep for being light wind wizards (well Keith and Ian did) until pumping became commonplace then any advantage conferred by lightweight and finesse disappeared.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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