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18 footers trialing foils

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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 3:15pm
According to the Sydney Flying Squadrons camera cat commentary as of a couple of weeks ago, they 'let slip'? that the 18's were doing some foil testing. Apparently they are looking at semi foiling, and the hard numbers have been done. With work underway on the test set up.

I guess this testing is in response to the SuperFoiler Grand Prix? Which may threaten the sponsorship available to the 18's.

So what cha' think about 18 footers going to foils? Bad idea, or Good idea?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 3:23pm
Been done before though:
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2159&title=foiling-18-skiff  
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 4:10pm
Well it has been done before, but only in the context of one off's, not in the context of a dramatic change to the league run from the home of the 18ft skiffs. It's a similar discussion I grant you, but this is a legit potential rule reboxing of the oldest sponsored spectator sailing league. It could potentially mean, if they don't do it, the death of the 18's in Sydney, if the Superfoilers hoover up the available sponsorship. Or it could kill the 18's because it just makes the boat dull but fast, and doesn't draw the sponsorship or spectators. Do sailors feel good, bad or indifferent to the change of what could be argued the sports biggest Poster Boy class?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 4:34pm
Cheap 18's coming to the market, with a second life in Europe, potentially the makings of a larger fleet in the northern hemisphere.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 4:42pm
You mean, after three goes in a new, old uk 18 for a few over enthusiastic newbie teams. A load of old 18's then sit in dingy parks around the UK disintegrating. With the same amount sailing them in the UK with slightly newer boats, as averagely as they did before? After the death of one of our sports great spectacles. I take it you are in the indifferent camp ;-)?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 10:19pm
I don't think they'd look as good as they do now, particularly for non sailors. Speed is part of the 18's appeal but so is the spray flying, which makes them look fast. The 18 may just become a slender two-handed cat-rigged boat, about as spectacular as a Marstrom 20 or A Class, and with the same lack of spectator interest.

I just don't understand a lot of the foiler hysteria. Cats have been faster than 18s for eons. Fans and sailors just accepted it, just as people accept the fact that you score more points in rugby than in football. It's not going to take long before people put foilers into their own category and won't care if they are faster, just as skiffies didn't worry that cats were faster and Mothies didn't worry when windsurfers were faster.

18 Footers are a lot like the AC, in that their long history of trading off ultimate speed for improved economy and accessibility is ignored by a bunch of superficial writers. While the class has obviously developed dramatically, on many occasions since 1908 they have slowed the boats down to make them more spectacular according to the conventional views, or more economical. Staying away from foiling would be just as much in the class tradition as adopting it - in fact arguably more so.

The way that foiling is seen by many people on SA seems in an odd way to be evidence of their narrow minded attitude. When cats, windsurfers, offshore multis and kites first started going faster than equivalent monos they were largely ignored by many people, just as they ignored seahugging Moths despite their performance and interest. It was only when foils started to be used in dinghies and then the AC that the whole "foiling is the future" rubbish started and has now got to the stage where foiling boats are seen as the upper end and the future. It's almost as if things don't exist unless they are in monos or the AC. 



'Scuse the rant.


Edited by Chris 249 - 11 Dec 17 at 10:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 11:10pm
It's a bit like the Formula One Formula Windsurfing (after they received a 'cease and desist' from Bernie Ecclestone) debacle. They followed a blind alley that killed grass roots windsurf racing stone dead. Thankfully, dinghy sailing is not a manufacturer led sport so the builders can't persuade the IYRU sorry, 'World Sailing' to outlaw anything not built by the "big three" (or was it four, or five..... GRF?......) manufacturers....  Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 10:28am
The other odd thing about the current foiling mania in multihulls is that the potential has been around for decades. The current multihull platforms are a fairly logical extension of some of the stuff the speed people were trying in the 70s and 80s. OK the speed people had a tendency to get stuck in the "sit in the middle, windward foil pulls down" blind alley, but its striking no-one picked it up. Then after some false starts the Mothies were forced down the single foil in the middle route by their rules, which turned out to work like crazy, and people in the catamaran world started to pay attention to what had been in front of their noses with the weirdos for years.

Edited by JimC - 12 Dec 17 at 10:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 10:59am
Remember the first foiling moths took a while to be comprehensively faster. Cats already had huge leverage and a low drag hull.  I think people always realised that a cat was a good platform for foils, it's just the benefit of flying the boat was smaller. You can see why in a fleet race scenario it would be a huge risk take and not completely obvious it would be faster. 

... hindsight  makes it obvious now, post san-fran; but I seem to recall most people being pretty shocked when reports came out ENTZ was foiling, and people were shocked when the boats took off upwind in the cup. 

Back to 18s. I used to watch quite a bit of 18s, but seeing 7 win by minutes got tedious. The fleet seemed to be a lot of by-gone top sailors who were now also-rans. Unless it was honking and a chance of crashes I wouldn't really watch. I think the depth in talent fell out of the 18 fleet; most going moth sailing instead. But, moths really make a crap platform to watch on screen; great for short clips, but too spread out otherwise.  

The superfoilers should be interesting... half of it is the boat, but also the line up they have already. Why couldn't the 18s get Ashby, Jenson, Outterridge? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 11:40am
If they were to use foils like the 14's and 12's do then that wouldn't be a bad thing would it. Cant comment on a 14 but in our 12 it makes it faster and easier to sail once you get the hang of it... a win win!
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