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18 footers trialing foils |
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Topic: 18 footers trialing foils Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 11:52am |
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If it makes them faster and easier to sail, it would be a bad thing for viewers. If the 18s want to keep it a professional series then viewers are key.
Less boats but better standard. Harder to sail, crashes + spray (i.e. the type of speed and jeopardy that is perceivable through a screen). But not too fast that they split out and you don't get more than a couple in camera-shot at once for the next hour.
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Jack Sparrow
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2965 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 12:06pm | |||
It's not like that now.
I guess this is my point. Is this ultimately the death rattle? Have the Sydney 18's become another class that only survives by bringing on the young sailing family members, of sailors in the class, like N12's? With the ultimate reduction in interest. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. As the tip bit I heard was that they are testing would not be 'fully foiling'. But I can't really see the benefit. That's going to make them marginally faster. But much less 'bouncy' and spectacular. Where as the Superfoiler is, mega fast and crashes pretty bit too! So quite spectacular. Maybe to stand out again. They need to be thinking bigger? Do something akin to the new AC rules boats?
Edited by Jack Sparrow - 12 Dec 17 at 12:07pm |
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Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 12:47pm | |||
Yeah, I've watched a couple of races, though it's early season it seems much closer. However, it feels like it's mostly because 7 stepped aside, rather than new sailors came up to challenge them. Maybe it has always somewhat been the case, but the last few years it's felt like the main challengers to 7 were old boys funded / sponsored by their own companies. Really, what they needed was top sailors coming up from youth, or from other parts of the sport battling with 7. It seems like they're trying to address that now.
Hard to tell. For me the 18s are on the faster side of what makes good viewing. The round the cans courses mean you have enough straight legs that you can see them line out. And the crashes and spray make up for the greater distance splits than you'd get in slower boats. So on the whole it makes for good viewing. But yeah, it hard to tell if they need to change something to become 'the place to be'. Is that foiling? Having a foil that you can't see, and doesn't quite lift the boat being a major performance differentiate would make poor viewing for me. I'd vote for more media tech, more professional sailors and investment in A/B or youth teams. When do the super foilers start racing?
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MikeBz
Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 4:02pm | |||
...
The 18s are not a 'pro' series, they are Sunday afternoon club racing with financial assistance - a large chunk of which comes from the businesses of one long-standing enthusiastic participant. It's based out of a single location, a club which makes fair amount of money from pokies, and has a degree of relatively low-budget internet coverage. You don't need to be rich nor a superstar to participate. All this is a good thing as far as I'm concerned - and is in its favour as far as its longevity is concerned. I don't think going down the foiling route is going to help them - if you want to get from A to B why start from C.
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Riv
Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 8:26pm | |||
The problem is that when I've seen " speed and jeopardy" a few time it gets dull. Big AC cats turning corners is fun for a few mins but quickly looses it's interest. Crash and burn after a few times is dull. All different but essentially the same.
I don't like watching sports where people take stupid risks for my "entertainment" and the profit of entreprenneurs. Occasionally extreme professional sailors get killed or injured. I do not want to watch people doing it for my entertainment. I find it distasteful. Bread and circuses (Juvanal, AD100) to keep the proles (Orwell 1949) quite!!
As DH Lawrence said "Folks should do their own f-----g', then they wouldn't want to listen to a lot of clatfart about another man's. (Lady Chatterely's Lover 1928) In another thread there are lots of good comments about Star racing. Here we have a familiar game being played, one we can all appreciate, skill and strength with few/no injuries to distract. No crash and burn. The assumption that speed and jeopardy is an answer to sporting coverage just produces a rush to the bottom. They will be sailing with spikes soon so the proles can see real blood.
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 8:39pm | |||
Sailing with swords is already being planned.
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Chris 249
Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 12 Dec 17 at 9:40pm | |||
The interesting thing about small foiling cats is the performance differential. The Small Cat Handicap Rating System initially rated foils as adding 7% speed, then on analysis of race results it dropped down to 4%. Interestingly, that's roughly the same as adding a kite to a cat, which is probably a bit easier and cheaper than adding foils. The other thing is that Texel results seem to indicate that current doublehanded foiling cats are actually slower in light winds than their non-foiling sisters. I can recall a little bit of overblown hype years ago when the new breed of spinnaker cats came out, about spinnakers being the future of cat sailing. That proved a load of old b**locks, of course. Kite cats are fun - I love mine - but for most people they aren't worth the hassle. Why adding 4% to speed with foils should cause a revolution (as some claim) when adding 4% with kites didn't is a mystery, perhaps best explained by the fact that most of those screeching about them in the media don't own or even regularly sail high-performance boats. Re the 18s; I haven't spoken to the club for eons but I feel that their aim is more to provide sustainable club racing than to get TV spectators, as MikeBZ says. McCartney and his team are on the opposite end, so it makes sense they would get different sailors.
Edited by Chris 249 - 12 Dec 17 at 9:40pm |
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Jack Sparrow
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2965 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Dec 17 at 4:11pm | |||
Totally. But if the sponsorship becomes harder to find, because there's another, arguable more exciting sponsored circuit racing on the same venue, it will become a lot harder to achieve what you are describing. I'm guessing that they have twigged the possibility of this, and are looking at ways of raising their game. But it might just make the situation worse! (Low Budget - back in the days of TOOHEYS Ripper Replay, the coverage wasn't so low budget was it (but now the coverage is still better than pretty much anything else bar the AC)).
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Daniel Holman
Really should get out more Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Dec 17 at 4:20pm | |||
Not sure how many superfoilers there are or what is proposed for the series, but in the context of the cost inherent in getting a commercial proposition like that off the ground, buying those guys for a couple of weekend is pocket change. To start with boats alone design build and operate a few of them, let’s say £100k a boat capex alone with zero residual value, buying in some talent to facilitate the confidence trick that is getting a new series of the ground would be smart I think. £6k a weekend for that three I reckon given it’s on their doorsteps and they are all back in the pro sailors equivalent of the gig economy. Offer a few others competitive day rates with say gc32 or whatever other foiling circuit, it may get traction. Where does the revenue come from? Presumably tv And YouTube ads and sail billboard? I’ll be honest I’d far rather watch stars. Which in turn I would probably rather watch them than moths. Which in turn I would much rather watch than slower crashier superfoilers. |
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ian.r.mcdonald
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 13 Dec 17 at 5:11pm | |||
having watched the Star league for the first time, surely the key is having close racing and lots of overtaking and incidents. Watching an 18 five minutes ahead of the rest of the fleet off the foils or upside down is not appealing at all
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