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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Star Sailors League
    Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by turnturtle

Well done for someone's altruistic endeavour actually being representative of the popular sport, 

A Star ... representative of popular sport ... you could not pick a more elitist small keel boat.

Do it in Squibs and you'd have a point ... 

Clearly this bloke loves Stars and this whole project is to keep the Star on life support following it being kicked out of the Olympic circus.

He seems to model this on the Pro Tennis tour; pros tennis players use the same court, racket and balls as we do so if this wants to mimic that do it in Lasers not Stars ...


Your point is valid, and I agree, but if you held it in lasers, the "big names" even those who were down to 80kg and fit as f&ck (ie very few of them) would get their arses handed to them by some laser sailing lads that nobody has ever heard of. Most wouldn't get in top half of national laser fleets. And if you invited Scheidt / Goodison / Slingsby / a.n other laser god, it wouldn't be a race, it would be an absolute annihilation of the non laser sailors, so basically only the laser guys would turn up.which is not good for business / egos / close racing etc.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 7:28pm
Squibs it is then if you want a race for old has beens. 

I don’t see Wimbledon being run for those players, it’s for the best athletes. 

Run it in Lasers, or D0s  Wink, and let’s see a pro tour for athletes. 

Promote it with the same budget and we will soon get to know the names. 


Edited by Old Timer - 11 Dec 17 at 7:31pm
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KazRob View Drop Down
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Posts: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Old Timer

 

A Star ... representative of popular sport ... you could not pick a more elitist small keel boat.

Do it in Squibs and you'd have a point ... 


I beg to differ as a ex Star owner. A few years ago there was well over 2000 active Stars in the world if my memory of the class year book serves me right. It has a vast spread of active sailors in many parts of the world that aren't the UK and active fleets all over the place in 21 'Districts' world wide. Just have a look at the 2017 calendar of 'trophy' events from the Star website and then tell me of another small keelboat class that has such a spread around the world
Not to everybody's cup of tea perhaps, but they are by no means rare (except in the UK it seems). 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 8:36pm
Squibs are surely UK only? Maybe there is a rich Briton who wants to buy 100 of them and put on a similar series? No, didn't think so.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 8:48pm
Think there are a few stars in wroxham, accept that they are pretty popular in the lakes in Europe and of course US of A. And everyone who sails them likes them, including pros doing it on their own dollar before SSL.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 8:56pm
While Stars are fascinating and very popular in some areas they are also rare (or non-existent, in terms of class activity) in Oceania, Africa and Asia these days. I think that list of regattas covers western Europe, North and South America - powerhouses to be sure, but still only three continents.

The Flying 15s top the list when it come to worldwide spread - they've got fleets in five nations in western Europe (UK, Ireland, Spain, France, Belgium), two countries in Africa, two or three nations in Asia (dunno where Mauritius comes in), two nations in Oceania, and still a minute bit of activity in a corner of North America. 

Squibs are arguably more elitist that Stars - at least every major country has a history in Stars and a depository of knowledge in Olympic-level Star sailing. 

The SA article is silly. As TT says, it's arguably just silly to claim that the best sailors are in the tiny group of classes they mention. Ironically, the Star class itself used to use the same circular logic - they used to claim that Star sailors were the best because the Stars had the best competition, and back up the claim that they had the best competition by saying they had the best sailors.

It's a great series, though, and a series that is based on small keelboats is arguably much less elitist than any of the other major events we can watch on the net. 



Edited by Chris 249 - 11 Dec 17 at 10:02pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3406 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 9:11pm
Michel Niklaus likes Stars and wants to make it premier small keelboat class.
Looks like he has cherry picked things he likes from various sports, Tennis, Golf and probably Formula 1.
The Million pounds he has spent on event in Nassau, lets put it in perspective, recently it was reported on the news that someone spent £386,000 on a bottle of champagne and gave a toast with it.
Finding it difficult to see anything negative in what he is trying to achieve or achieved.


Edited by 423zero - 11 Dec 17 at 9:12pm
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KazRob View Drop Down
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Posts: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KazRob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 9:15pm
Chris 249 - that depends if you count Russia as Asian or European :-) although there appears to be a Chinese fleet according to the WS website as they paid class dues. Can't imagine that's just hedging bets against a return to the Olympics really.
The FF is a great boat and you can see it's spread in Commonwealth countries in the way as the Star did in the others. Glad to say they're not mutually exclusive
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 9:38pm
I think it's a very cool thing he's done... is it the future or way forward? Well, for me, I'd like to see something a bit more financially sustainable, but the format really produced great viewing i thought.

Sailing Anarchy have a dig at the 'platform'... I wouldn't take much notice of much that gets put of the front page of that site. They seem completely muddled on what is good for the sport. 

However, as a viewer, the move to a slower more 'grunt' boat works for me on screen. Viewing in person the fast and foiling cats are perceptibly fast (or at least you can tell they're moving). But on screen, less so. As soon as you need a multi depth focus to get two boats in one picture all the context is lost. Slower boats racing neck and neck are really good viewing in this regard. 

The best thing, though, is the effort to pull top names in. Even if some are past their best. The star class is a really good platform for this. Does is matter if stars are popular or widely sailed? Not for me, no. The boat could have been unique to event; anything that allows a wide range of sizes to get in and compete on a relatively even footing (with the help of an experienced crew). 


Edited by mozzy - 11 Dec 17 at 9:45pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3398 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 17 at 10:00pm
F1 cars are the fastest around a 'traditional' racecourse, i.e. tarmac, purpose built and not a 'Stock Car' (there's misnomer if ever there was one) oval. The complaints about the quality of the racing are usually focused on the limited overtaking and wheel to wheel 'racing' they provide. Slower classes ('touring cars', another misnomer) are generally considered to provide better 'racing'. Could the same not be said of sailing?
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