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Spreader set up

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mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 17 at 7:25pm
Yeah the theory is one thing, what is difficult is matching that up against what you can feel in the boat. Isolating a single variable in changeable conditions is where the art comes in. 

One thing I will add, is I've always been a believer that you can override a 'too straight' mast set up by pulling sail controls to de-power. However, downwind you can't make the mast any straighter once your down-haul / kicker is fully off. It's always easier to rake a mast too which is often adjustable on the water, or as least without dropping the mast.

In the 200, for example, it gets to the point where the kicker is off so much you lose any leech control. I've found it better to run a straighter mast, so I can still keep a little so kicker tension and have nice depth. Then just kicker the hell out of it upwind (and not run too much rig tension). 

Obviously if you're not in a SMOD you could get a differently cut sail or different sectioned mast too... Just be glad you don't have caps and lowers and weight on trapeze wires to worry about too!




Edited by mozzy - 24 Nov 17 at 10:36am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 17 at 9:08pm
So having the lowers (or Swatcher) tight until overpowered is a good idea?

Spice has two wires, and TBH I should work out how to maximise power with just one trapezing as I'm not the best at helming off the wire and don't have a regular crew who can compensate for my shortfalls.......

I did have a graphic demonstration a few weeks ago, a blasting day with my mate in his Blaze and me and irregular crew in the Spice, the difference between t'crew wiring and not was dramatic (should be obvious but we were just having fun reaching up and down......).



Edited by Sam.Spoons - 23 Nov 17 at 9:13pm
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
Supernova 395 "dolly the sheep" (now sold but still undecided as to her replacement)
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mozzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 17 at 9:50pm
Yes, although, someone might correct me here as it's been a long time since I sailed with lowers and caps.

So, yes in principle the more lowers the straighter the bottom section. This will help create a bit of grunt down low. However, we never really measure tension for lowers, we just went on how the sail looked, where the starvation creases developed when increasing kicker. So, my feeling was it was more about balancing and distributing kicker forces so there is a nice even bend in the mast. 

Similarly for caps, they just really supported the huge kite downwind. Upwind you'd want them pretty loose to allow the rig to work, maybe a bit more on in the light to open up the top of the sail and let it breath. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 17 at 9:13am
In a boat with no lowers it's relatively simple, not having any control low down can make it harder, no mast ram or even partners at the deck to stop the mast inverting would make me a little nervous but then without a kite this might not be such an issue.

Simply put, spreader rake will control the static bend in the rig, or the amount of pre-bend that the mast gets for a given forestay tension. Once this is decided the length of the spreaders will dictate the stiffness of the mast in changing conditions, so essentially gust response. The only concern with overly long spreaders, particularly when you have no lowers at all is that the mast will sag in the middle and the tip will actually move to windward. This is particularly true when the rig is set up very slack, less of an issue when there is still plenty of residual shroud tension on the leeward side. 

I think the first thing to decide is whether the rig likes to be slack or tight, I would imagine without lower mast control or support that it would be safer to have it on the tight side. When I first got my RS100 when they were brand new I turned up at the nationals having only sailed the boat for a week, the only way I could make it feel right was for the rig to be so slack that upwind the shrouds were both slack, it was rocket ship fast but that boat has good support at deck level. In that case I just wound the spreaders back as far as they would go to help prevent the mast inverting downwind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 17 at 9:38am
I love watching them in the boat park with their 'settings' their tape measures, their loos guages, then they overstand by twenty boat lengths, or miss the start, or go exactly the wrong way up the beat, or take the circular tourist route when rounding marks...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 17 at 10:16am
But 'they' probably would have made those mistakes regardless of rig set up. Better to be going the wrong way with fast boat than a slow boat, hey? 

I agree that playing around too much with the rig on the water can often be more a distraction than good. But spending time off the water on getting a decent set up seems like a good use of none sailing time at almost all levels. 

It's usually something which can be done over couple of sails to get a workable set up, then after that it's just set and forget. Most classes have a tuning guide, so with very little thinking you can just copy a setting out of their then focus on sail controls and what you do on the water. 

I think it's harder in the new classes, like H2's hadron where there is less likely to be accepted ballpark settings so you have to work out more for yourself by putting in to practice the theory. . 


Edited by mozzy - 24 Nov 17 at 10:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 17 at 2:29pm
So, how given the lack of sensitivity and 'feel' in these things do you tell if what you've done actually makes a performance in terms of speed difference. I accept the better gust response and have learned that here and now directly from this thread so will check what's going on with the lump of tin attached to my lake boat, pretty sure it has spreaders.


Noooo, I've walked into it haven't I.. Go class racing then you can tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 17 at 4:27pm
Noooo, I've walked into it haven't I.. Go class racing then you can tell. 

That would be a good start  Big smile

Better still two boat tuning - but they would have to be the same class too to learn much.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 17 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by PeterG

Better still two boat tuning - but they would have to be the same class too to learn much.</span>


And the same weight helm, my main nemesis down the lake in the same class, who I struggle to beat more often than not, is 20 + kilos heavier, but I suspect but refuse to admit the greater issue is the forty three years younger bit combined with the ten years more sailing experience and the 30 cms or so greater righting moment
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