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Does my bum look big in this? (crew weight)

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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 12:53pm
PS

You are not going to live with the big boys at 80KG in a Phantom - especially in breeze/on the sea

You'd get away with it inland/light winds of course

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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by rich96

85kg in a Solo must be pretty much bang on ?

70kg would be very very light

Typically the worst time to be 'heavy' in the Solo would be in marginal planing conditions - it seems to cope well with weight until that point


Same applies to any boat to a greater or lesser extent. Once you are easing the main upwind more weight is an advantage, likewise reaching, when it's marginal planing (for your crew weight) lighter crews will cross that threshold sooner. In a drifter the lighter the better but finding pressure is more important.




Edited by Sam.Spoons - 21 Nov 17 at 12:55pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 1:04pm
Rich - good point, I ought to clarify that my experience referenced in that post is related to inland evening drifters mainly!  Sea sailing continues to be rudderless standing up stuff at the moment....    
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Gordon 1430 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 1:40pm
I always found what I gained upwind by being tall and heavy was more often than not nothing compared to the loss downwind in a spinnaker boat to lightweights up to about force 5.
Our club mostly has downwind finishes so I am convinced in our fleet of 400's the light teams win more than they should and they are very light by open meeting standards at about 21stone.

As (a more sensible for my size) phantom sailor its fine on the run very little loss but reaches can be very painful against Tickle, Ivan, Slow etc. Waves do help. All Phantom sailors under 100kg should have to wear correctors.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Gordon 1430

I always found what I gained upwind by being tall and heavy was more often than not nothing compared to the loss downwind in a spinnaker boat to lightweights up to about force 5.
Our club mostly has downwind finishes so I am convinced in our fleet of 400's the light teams win more than they should and they are very light by open meeting standards at about 21stone.

As (a more sensible for my size) phantom sailor its fine on the run very little loss but reaches can be very painful against Tickle, Ivan, Slow etc. Waves do help. All Phantom sailors under 100kg should have to wear correctors.

I'm still struggling to work out exactly what optimum weight is for the 400. This season I sailed with a relatively big crew, I was also a lot heavier than I am now. We were probably 170kg combined. I never felt fast in the light or downwind but seemed to be able to make up for it most of the time upwind. I don't know whether that's because I helm better upwind than downwind though which could be a big factor with a new class.

Next year I expect to be around 150kgs with a new crew, maybe even slightly less if I get back down to my fighting weight of around 80-82kgs. Who knows whether that will be fast or not!?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:01pm
When the Merlin Rockets were having the debate about shedding some of the hull weight, Phil Morrison added some interesting insights to the discussion. He believes that the lighter the hull weight, the greater the importance of conforming to a target weight. Could this be the attraction of some of the more traditional classes - which just also happen to be the heavier boats, in that they are less weight sensitive. Now it could be that what was really being said was "if you're heavy - sail a heavier boat". What was clear in the Merlins was the startling reduction in the 'winningest weight' - in just two seasons the 26 stone norm had dropped to 21.5st.
Dougal H
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:04pm
Hi Laser
I just did the conversion and our lot are sailing at about 130kg at club level and its the long down winds they gain on. I have been first to the windward mark on a few occasions in the windy stuff and with a downwind leg of about a mile I cant remember still being there by the leeward mark.
Bigger open meeting fleet where being able to hold your lane of the start extra weight tends to make a bigger difference upwind and then they have to pass a few boats to catch up is not so easy.
They used to reckon 160kg (25 stone) was about for the 400 but I think its a bit lighter now.
Gordon
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furtive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote furtive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:08pm
It definitely makes sense that (all other things being equal) a heavier boat will be less sensitive to variations in crew weight.

Another topic that hasn't yet been mentioned in this thread is weight equalisation. I know that some of the usual suspects will be along shortly to decry this as a terrible idea, but it fundamentally addresses the issue of different size people competing in the same class. And in this respect it works very well. If you're worried about being short, then height can be included in the equation, so you are weight and righting moment equalised. 

Linking these two points together, if you start with a heavier boat, you can "fit" a much bigger range of competitive crews to the boat using weight equalisation compared to a lighter boat (e.g. 4000 v 800)


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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by furtive

Another topic that hasn't yet been mentioned in this thread is weight equalisation. I know that some of the usual suspects will be along shortly to decry this as a terrible idea, but it fundamentally addresses the issue of different size people competing in the same class. And in this respect it works very well. If you're worried about being short, then height can be included in the equation, so you are weight and righting moment equalised.

I can see the point in class racing, and if it's part of the class dynamic then no reason to complain about it... just pick a different class.  But it seem a level of complexity fo club and handicap sailing that at best gets ignored, at worse mistreated/abused.  


Edited by turnturtle - 21 Nov 17 at 3:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 4:40pm
My take on it as a light weight...

In light winds, weight has a minimal difference on performance as long as the design carry's weight well. 

In string winds or at least as soon as everyone is planing then weight is good, and the light weight is disadvantaged but technique and fitness can offset some of this

The only time it really pays to be light is in marginal planing conditions... however then it can pay big time as the gains made planing when others arn't can obviously be huge.

Ian
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