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Does my bum look big in this? (crew weight) |
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rich96 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 20 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 596 |
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 Topic: Does my bum look big in this? (crew weight)Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 12:53pm |
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PS
You are not going to live with the big boys at 80KG in a Phantom - especially in breeze/on the sea You'd get away with it inland/light winds of course |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 12:55pm |
Same applies to any boat to a greater or lesser extent. Once you are easing the main upwind more weight is an advantage, likewise reaching, when it's marginal planing (for your crew weight) lighter crews will cross that threshold sooner. In a drifter the lighter the better but finding pressure is more important. Edited by Sam.Spoons - 21 Nov 17 at 12:55pm |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 1:04pm |
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Rich - good point, I ought to clarify that my experience referenced in that post is related to inland evening drifters mainly! Sea sailing continues to be rudderless standing up stuff at the moment....
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Gordon 1430
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 27 Jun 17 Location: Lee on Solent Online Status: Offline Posts: 310 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 1:40pm |
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I always found what I gained upwind by being tall and heavy was more often than not nothing compared to the loss downwind in a spinnaker boat to lightweights up to about force 5. Our club mostly has downwind finishes so I am convinced in our fleet of 400's the light teams win more than they should and they are very light by open meeting standards at about 21stone.
As (a more sensible for my size) phantom sailor its fine on the run very little loss but reaches can be very painful against Tickle, Ivan, Slow etc.
Waves do help. All Phantom sailors under 100kg should have to wear correctors.
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Gordon
Phantom 1430 |
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laser193713
Really should get out more
Joined: 13 May 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 889 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 2:18pm |
I'm still struggling to work out exactly what optimum weight is for the 400. This season I sailed with a relatively big crew, I was also a lot heavier than I am now. We were probably 170kg combined. I never felt fast in the light or downwind but seemed to be able to make up for it most of the time upwind. I don't know whether that's because I helm better upwind than downwind though which could be a big factor with a new class. Next year I expect to be around 150kgs with a new crew, maybe even slightly less if I get back down to my fighting weight of around 80-82kgs. Who knows whether that will be fast or not!?
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Dougaldog
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 05 Nov 10 Location: hamble Online Status: Offline Posts: 356 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:01pm |
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When the Merlin Rockets were having the debate about shedding some of the hull weight, Phil Morrison added some interesting insights to the discussion. He believes that the lighter the hull weight, the greater the importance of conforming to a target weight. Could this be the attraction of some of the more traditional classes - which just also happen to be the heavier boats, in that they are less weight sensitive. Now it could be that what was really being said was "if you're heavy - sail a heavier boat". What was clear in the Merlins was the startling reduction in the 'winningest weight' - in just two seasons the 26 stone norm had dropped to 21.5st.
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Dougal H
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Gordon 1430
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 27 Jun 17 Location: Lee on Solent Online Status: Offline Posts: 310 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:04pm |
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Hi Laser I just did the conversion and our lot are sailing at about 130kg
at club level and its the long down winds they gain on. I have been first to the windward mark on a few occasions in the windy stuff and with a downwind leg of about a mile I cant remember still being there by the leeward mark. Bigger open meeting fleet where being able to hold your lane of the start extra weight tends to make a bigger difference upwind and then they have to pass a few boats to catch up is not so easy. They used to reckon 160kg (25 stone) was about for the 400 but I think its a bit lighter now.
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Gordon
Phantom 1430 |
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furtive
Posting king 
Joined: 30 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 188 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:08pm |
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It definitely makes sense that (all other things being equal) a heavier boat will be less sensitive to variations in crew weight.
Another topic that hasn't yet been mentioned in this thread is weight equalisation. I know that some of the usual suspects will be along shortly to decry this as a terrible idea, but it fundamentally addresses the issue of different size people competing in the same class. And in this respect it works very well. If you're worried about being short, then height can be included in the equation, so you are weight and righting moment equalised. Linking these two points together, if you start with a heavier boat, you can "fit" a much bigger range of competitive crews to the boat using weight equalisation compared to a lighter boat (e.g. 4000 v 800) |
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turnturtle
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 3:11pm |
I can see the point in class racing, and if it's part of the class dynamic then no reason to complain about it... just pick a different class. But it seem a level of complexity fo club and handicap sailing that at best gets ignored, at worse mistreated/abused.
Edited by turnturtle - 21 Nov 17 at 3:11pm |
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ifoxwell
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Joined: 05 Jan 06 Location: Hoo Online Status: Offline Posts: 669 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 17 at 4:40pm |
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My take on it as a light weight...
In light winds, weight has a minimal difference on performance as long as the design carry's weight well. In string winds or at least as soon as everyone is planing then weight is good, and the light weight is disadvantaged but technique and fitness can offset some of this The only time it really pays to be light is in marginal planing conditions... however then it can pay big time as the gains made planing when others arn't can obviously be huge. Ian |
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RS300
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