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So? I am not a number article?

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: So? I am not a number article?
    Posted: 16 Nov 17 at 3:14pm
Two questions then, what did you think of the article and what did you think about the illustrious body refusing to permit accurate research of their methodology? Is it hubris?

Edited by iGRF - 16 Nov 17 at 3:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 17 at 4:08pm
Really good article and well written and well done David for writing it.
I suppose the RYA don't have to play if they don't want to. Maybe the can of worms needs a more gentle approach before it is opened. Not hubris I think. 
Just control.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 17 at 4:16pm
I thought it was a very interesting look back. 

But...
"Moreover, the Great Lakes Committee maintain a website (greatlakes.org.uk/The-Method.php) in which they clearly document how the numbers in use for the current season are arrived at." 

After looking at the great lakes website I'd have to say it's really not very clear. They state their aims, but the link to 'the method' isn't a method at all, it just talks loosely about 'analysis'.  

It would be interesting to hear from Great lakes just how much of the analysis is done quantitatively, versus gut feeling from the committee. I'm not saying either are really better, but it would be helpful, for those looking to replicate groupings of similar local waters (shifty ponds, exquisite estuaries, high seas, etc). 

For me, most of you won't be surprised to hear, the localised one designs of the 1940's sounded like a far greater sport than the computer models suggested as 'the solution'. If you need a computer to tell you the result, it just doesn't sit right with me. I want that neck and neck feeling of being in a 'race'. I want immediate feedback on when I'm gaining inches and losing yards. 


Edited by mozzy - 16 Nov 17 at 4:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 17 at 4:57pm
Well I liked the article, but as you can imagine I think it is outrageous that they refused access to a respected journalist writing an article for a respected journal, it smacks of entirely the sort of patrician attitude that is imv at the very root of the cancer that's causing the decline.

Heads need to roll.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 17 at 5:50pm
It would have been good the RYA to engage with Dougal, but if this was a problem to them, perhaps they could have invited another journo ... unless perhaps there is less data crunching than we are led to believe ...

I think that it is a bit unrealistic to introduce some of the concepts that DH proposes, a lot of the problems in recruiting ROs relate to the perceptions of complexity in managing handicap races.

When he refers to the system working best with similar types of craft, this confirms to me the idea of running different races and courses for different types of craft, the Weston Grand Slam used to do this quite well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 17 at 6:45pm
I accept the observations, but disagree with the solutions... imho, the horse might have bolted for class racing, but given the cliff edge coming in part two, Id say f**k it and go and round the beast in rather than further paralysis through analysis of a bullsh*t racing methodology.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 17 at 8:08am
Well this is interesting, for an PY topic to generate a couple of "whatever" responses and then tumbleweed. 

Have we finally got bored with chewing on that old gristle. 

I'm pretty much with Mozzy, David and TT; interesting history but so far as more complication I'm out. I actually quite like the random variability of what we have. edit add and the reality check of meeting up for class racing.  

And as for dark conspiracies, nah, I'm more inclined to comedic self importance, I once had an RYA area something or other tell me that he was privy to "certain" information, please, it's the RYA not the CIA MI5 or KGB.  

As for unfavourable or favourable numbers killing or promoting classes. So far as I'm concerned that say a lot more about shallow and self delusional sailors than anything else. A nice boat will always be desirable to anyone with any discernment whatever the number and likewise the other way. 


Edited by Do Different - 17 Nov 17 at 8:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 17 at 8:34am
There is a much more simple answer to new boats being given a slightly harsh number at an open event than conspiracy. You have a fleet of 100 boats, say. 4 of them are new. You give them generous numbers, and they come 1,2,3,4. You now have 96 unhappy sailors. Give them an ungenerous number. They are likely to be decent sailors, so beat loads of people, and come somewhere in the teens or 20s. Maybe even top 10 if really good. The 4 know they were in boats with ENs, so don't take the results too seriously, and enjoy the racing and showing off new toys. The 96 don't feel they have been beaten by a spreadsheet, and enjoy racing against the new toys.

Some pillock then goes on Y&Y and starts moaning about conspiracy theories. Readers start to think what a bunch of moaning Minnie's the marketeers of said class are, and decide not to bother trying one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 17 at 9:24am
+1 a sensible, rational explanation, much better than Kentish conspiracy theories. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 17 at 9:58am
Is the first EN new classes get allocated proposed by the PYAG or the builder/designer/marketing department? I've long held the belief that the class have an input and choose a number that achieves a certain aim. New "skiffy thing" lets choose a low number we know the boat will never sail to so prospective buyers think it's proper fast? New "Oppi beater" give it a higher number so "little Johnnie/Janie's" early results will make them look good?.....

edit :- excellent article BTW  Thumbs Up


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 17 Nov 17 at 9:59am
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