J24 (Sail No. 4239) Dartmouth |
Laurent Giles 'Jolly Boat' Exeter |
Laser XD 203301 Upminster |
List classes of boat for sale |
So? I am not a number article? |
Post Reply | Page <1 1213141516 19> |
Author | |||
turnturtle
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Topic: So? I am not a number article? Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 2:35pm |
||
|
|||
turnturtle
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 2:42pm | ||
test score = 60% Jimbo Score = 92.7%
|
|||
sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 2:53pm | ||
Well I'm a 300 sailor and a far from expert boat handler. But I persisted with mine (20 years and counting) and I'm a far better boat handler for it. I've run some analysis and and I reckon that I'm about 8-9% PY better in the other boats I sail. That is to say 5% better than the PY reduction in the same period. But the point is that I only judge myself on results against other 300s. When I handicap race I just look at whether my processes were good. The spreadsheet results confirm or deny my thoughts. Helpfully there is usually time for reflection before I see them!
|
|||
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 3:06pm | ||
GL state "Our aim is to allow the top sailors in any class an equal chance of winning when conditions suit that class" That can be interpreted in many ways, have you been told it means they only process the top boats in their calculations? How do they determine who the top sailors are? Is it 5% of each class, or 25%. Or is it sailors they would consider top? The top sailors in Visions, Quests and Vago's all finished well down the results; by GL aim then they should be have an equal chance of winning, or did conditions not suit last year? At some point, someone has to look subjectively at those results and say the top X sailor isn't as good as the Y class sailor. This an in-built issue with handicaps based on historic results before you consider variable performance across conditions and condition not being the same for two boat int eh same race. I suspect the reason GL don't publish their methodology, and why the RYA want to have their frank discussions in private is because if it was openly known then it would ruin facade of 'fairness' in the numbers. Personally, part of me is glad a centralised committee has put effort in to work out rough numbers, as it saves every sailing club around the country going through the same process. But part of me feels the centralised committee and RYA backing gives the numbers a gravitas they don't deserve; and more people had to involve themselves 'working' number out on a local level they would stop insisting its the future of our sport.
|
|||
Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 3:25pm | ||
quote from sail juice website :- "Poor performers are excluded before class handicaps are computed in order to prevent undue influence by those who were late to the start, having a bad day or simply new to the sport or the boat."
|
|||
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
|||
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 3:31pm | ||
Yeah, but how do they determine poor performances? Someone has to subjectively determine a cut off? The GL method page hardly gives a method does it?
Plus, going back to the SJ series, the top vision sailor who still finished well down, who determines they were " late to the start, having a bad day or simply new to the sport or the boat" despite being top in their class?
p.s. not pulling you up on this Sam, just point out where I don't really see GL 'method' as a method at all. They state their aims but I imagine a lot of subjective tweeting goes on. Edited by mozzy - 22 Nov 17 at 3:32pm |
|||
Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 4:03pm | ||
I'm sure it does but as an aim I think it has much to commend it. If it was possible to process the results of the best 10% of sailors across a full range of classes (and sailing conditions) that would get closer to the handicappers ideal of the number representing the boats' relative performance.
|
|||
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
|||
turnturtle
Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 4:10pm | ||
I doubt it... the best 10% of the Solo, Merlin, (insert other non-noddy class here) are going to be a sh*tload hotter than the top 10% of the more noddy classes out there. As Mozzy points out, defining which classes constitute the noddier of the mix, is always going be subjective. And understandably, this process is kept from public view.... after all, no one likes it if their class is given the noddy tag. Edited by turnturtle - 22 Nov 17 at 4:15pm |
|||
The Moo
Really should get out more Joined: 01 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 807 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 4:33pm | ||
Ha! Just spotted the pipe smoking PYAG member stood on the shore gathering anecdotal evidence of the Merlin's performance for the next meeting.
|
|||
Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3398 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 22 Nov 17 at 4:41pm | ||
Perhaps I worded that badly when I said the "top 10% of sailors", I didn't mean "the best 10% of sailors of each class". My point was that, in a hypothetical world, if one could get the top sailors together and have them race a range of boats in a range of conditions and use that set of results to set the handicaps they would better represent the actual performance potential of the boats (I think somebody, GRF possibly, mooted this super-series approach in an earlier PY thread so I'm not claiming it as original).
With the Portsmouth system 'noddy boats' should end up with a more favourable handicap and should, if given into the hands of a good sailor, consistently do better than expected. Presumably the PYAG use their input to adjust PNs of such boats. GL eliminate a percentage of the fleet (no specific knowledge but if they only processed the top 50% of each class that would get them closer to that ideal). Edited by Sam.Spoons - 22 Nov 17 at 4:48pm |
|||
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
|||
Post Reply | Page <1 1213141516 19> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |