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Windward mark |
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H2
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
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Topic: Windward mark Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 12:50pm |
In our handicap fleet we have some interesting windward mark behaviour - before I go speak to people I just want to make sure I understand the rules completely!
Windward mark, rounding to port. End of the first beat, normal scenario with the majority coming in to the mark on the starboard tack lay-line or just above because no one wants to get caught out. A flying Fifteen normally then comes storming in on the Port tack lay line and throws in a tack underneath all the starboard tack boats and the FF uses its significant momentum to continue moving head to wind and squeeze around the mark. All the starboard tack boats have to pinch to avoid hitting them but the FF just says that they are on starboard tack so windward boats keep clear. Who is in the right?
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 1:00pm |
Then the Flying Fif doesn't under stand rule 18.3.
Is it a mark to be left to port? Yes Is the FF passing head to wind from port to starboard tack? Yes Is the FF then fetching the mark? Yes: if she does actually pinch up and clear the mark then she has been fetching it all along (Definition: Fetching). Does she cause another boat on starboard tack since entering the zone to sail above close hauled to avoid contact? Yes Then FF breaks rule 18.3, unless the boat that she forces up has also passed head to wind from port to starboard in the zone. Rule 18.3 does not affect right of way: the other boat, if clear astern or to windward must still keep clear in accordance with rules 12 or 11. Her remedy is to protest.
Edited by Brass - 31 Oct 17 at 9:07pm |
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H2
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 1:14pm |
Brass - as ever thanks for the speedy / knowledgeable reply.
One small tweak. If the starboard tack boats are coming into the mark slightly above the layline then they can head up a bit without going above close hauled thereby granting the FF room to clear the mark whilst fetching....but the starboard boats are disadvantaged as they would have to sail a longer course and have a huge FF under them on the run with an overlap!
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 5:49pm |
Moral is, if you have overstood the mark and see a boat approaching on port, see it early enough to be able to crack off slightly and shut the door before it is too late.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Brass
Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 9:08pm |
Yup to both.
And see my amendment at the foot of my first post. The other boat must keep clear. Edited by Brass - 31 Oct 17 at 9:09pm |
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JimC
Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6648 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 31 Oct 17 at 9:09pm |
And then the wind heads 15 degrees, you can no longer make the mark and are in deep proverbial... |
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 6:43am |
I know - nearly added that, but decided it was another layer of complication. There are certainly reasons for over standing the mark, and at some point, you have to take a gamble one way or the other.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 7:40am |
We regularly have boats who have gone deep and then port reach up to Mark.
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H2
Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 8:28am |
Especially when sailing on a pond and the windward mark is too close to those trees!! I guess everyone gambles. Thanks for the guidance
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jeffers
Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 17 at 8:32am |
Depends on how far 'slightly' above is. i.e if it is less than a boat width (so you are forced above your close hauled course) then there is no room for the FF and they break 18.3 as explained above by Brass.
To be fair given the average FF sailor I come across most of them still shout 'mast abeam'........
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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