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Gordon 1430 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gordon 1430 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 1:11pm
Yes Grf I do read most of what's posted on here, and do you honestly think the 50 or so people who us this forum represent the majority of dinghy sailors?
Even amongst those of us who do use the forum I still think the majority believe we have a good system as stated before.
Gordon
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 1:20pm
Clubs are encouraged to 'adjust' PNs by the RYA are they not ... ?  But many don't bother or perhaps suspect they would be on the receiving end of  'lobbying' from various malcontents who may often have a vested interest in the status quo.  However that does not make it an unreasonable proposal by the RYA.

The GL approach is however almost exactly applying the RYA's proposals - they adjust the RYA PN numbers to reflect experience.  1000+ individual competitors each year at the SJ series seem to accept it well enough, it provides great racing and the GL numbers use is increasing at other locations and events.  This must mean more racing organisers do see something in the RYA's (and GL) proposal / approach.  The GL number system, as an adjusted package of numbers, may even today constitute a 'fig-leaf  valued by some clubs given the 'proactive feedback' that would come from some of their members if they dared evolve their own local set of numbers.  GL ones are an 'off the shelf' already adjusted package ...  Wink  

Nobody is forced to compete at the SJ series etc etc - 'you' don't have to take part if you don't want but I suspect not all vocal critics will have often done so in the past anyway.  Hey ho .. Each to their own. 

This subject always makes it a good day to sit back in the deckchair with beverage and crisps ..... and just watching !


 


Edited by Cirrus - 30 Oct 17 at 1:37pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Gordon 1430

Yes Grf I do read most of what's posted on here, and do you honestly think the 50 or so people who us this forum represent the majority of dinghy sailors?

Even amongst those of us who do use the forum I still think the majority believe we have a good system as stated before.


Well I don't disagree with you in the context of advice for this thread, as you might have noticed had you read what I'd said prior to telling everyone to ignore it.

That doesn't mean I think it's a good thing as it stands, nor do I think the GL system is any better, but I'm bored saying it, or suggesting anything different to this collection of folk who wouldn't change, even if someone came up with the Golden solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 1:57pm
I know its totally unworkable but I sometimes wonder if a boat should have two handicaps, one for wind below X and one for wind above X. In the past this was impossible but now that clubs use plug in like WindGuru its possible to track the wind speed measured on top of club house over the duration of the days race and then apply the handicap based upon the most prevalent wind conditions. Let the flaming begin.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Eisvogel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 2:00pm
More relevant than the wind is probably the course setting. At our pond, you can have any mixture of beats/reaches/runs, and some courses suit some classes better than others.

There are just too many variables, so it seems futile to find anything even approximating a perfect solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 4:21pm
GL just seems to be PY but based on a smaller selection set and with an arguable degree of commercial interest...

I would suggest that if you feel PY is producing consistently unfair results at your club then propose some local adjustments and apply them retrospectively to the last two or three years results to see what the effect would have been. Then take these to the sailing committee to see what everyone else thinks.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 5:11pm
You might find that some competitors dont mind a worse handicap if it results in a greater perception of fairness.  What does not go down well is if the handicap is adjusted in a way that it can be perceived as a personal handicap system that favours the less competent ... unless it is promoted as such.

We turned up with a Yawl at the Chichester Snowflake a few years back, and our handicap was adjusted by a minute on a weekly basis until we stopped winning; we didnt really mind, it made for better and more enjoyable racing for everone.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 5:19pm
The sail wave program will soon pick out if you have a bandit issue. It will give you an idea of how people are performing against their handicap within your fleet. In most clubs the national level sailors can usually perform 6 or 7 per cent quicker than their handicap compared to the fleet average if there is a good spread of ability.
You can spot the issues easily when the winning boat is usually 15 per cent quicker, and the average sailors in that class are also outperforming the fleet average. This is what happened at Hunts with the Phantom, and I am sure any light quickly accelerating vessel would do the same there, so I am not surprised about the D zero comment.
We seem to be very reluctant to share the chocolates in sailing. In other club individual sports there is often a system to adjust individual performance, and an inclusivity for prizes.
If on a sailing committee I would write into the club rules a mechanism for correcting outliers. At least with the Great Lakes system we know that we will see changes, even if they are not always to my liking.
Andy Mck
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 8:45pm
GL just seems to be PY but based on a smaller selection set and with an arguable degree of commercial interest...

Quite a charge to make .... Evidence of  'commercial interest' at least then please ?  
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 8:51pm
The whole thing is a plot by the pushchair maker to have their boat win handicap races, didn't you know?
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