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Oinks
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Oct 14 Location: Bandol Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
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Topic: Handicap Sailing Posted: 29 Oct 17 at 10:35pm |
So...big discussion tonight between members of the sailing committee and a few people who go sailing...
Should we.. a) adopt the Great Lakes Yardsticks b) stick with Portsmouth Yardsticks c) locally adjust Portsmouth Yardsticks Background...large inland lake...200ish acres....history of pretty acrimonious exchanges about handicaps in the past...age demographic...70% over 45. As Principal RO (who has to decide those things at our club) what would you do?
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andymck
Far too distracted from work Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 17 at 11:12pm |
The great lakes system is not perfect, but at least it seems to be reactive to changes, and has allowed a variety of classes to reach the front, both in the Great lakes events, and in my experience, club racing. There are still quite clearly outliers though, often with boats that do not have an even performance profile. Your alternative is just to introduce a local correction, so that the best sailors in your club have to sail well to win. Or perhaps, a vote to change to adopted classes.
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Andy Mck
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Oinks
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Oct 14 Location: Bandol Online Status: Offline Posts: 267 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 12:22am |
I think the issue really is, if you change something that has been in place since whenever PN was introduced (1960s?) the status quo is quite radically upset. Something that people have "trusted" (more or less) for a good part of their sailing lives is out the window for what is perceived to be unwarranted fiddling by people who might have some sort of agenda (locally adjust PNs) or this other "Johnny-come-lately" scheme (Great Lakes) that basically takes the PN system which is then (again) adjusted by men in smoked filled rooms. I'm not saying that is the case. But that will be the perception. There will be winners and losers. How would you deal with the losers?
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maxibuddah
Really should get out more Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 6:57am |
Deal with the losers traditional brexit way "you lost get over it"
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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sargesail
Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 7:13am |
It depends on what you want handicaps to do? ‘Equalise’ performance for the best sailors (GL’s focus) or all sailors (PY). That’s the difference in how the statistical methods are applied IIRC.
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ian.r.mcdonald
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 7:33am |
I think that using PY at least avoids a clubs handicap commitee being chased round the dinghy park before racing by people who feel short changed. Thankless task, but thanks to those brave enough to have a go!
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Rupert
Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 8:13am |
Locally adjust, but never downwards, if you want a quiet life.
Trouble is, if you have "one of each" racing, you cannot separate boat from sailor very easily. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Paramedic
Really should get out more Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 8:23am |
The great lakes system works - to a point - in a big fleet where slow boats have to sail in the dirty air of 80+ faster boats but its very vulnerable to crew skill factor, particularly when you look at the adjustments made to some classes vs people who sail them. There one or two glaring anomalies.
To cut to the chase: If you try to use the great lakes system on a small pond you will mess up your racing completely. If you use the PYs it will be better but not perfect. If you tweak the PYs you will be criticised by whoever loses loses out! If its a small pond i would stick to PY. If its open water it probably wont make much difference but fast boats are generally hammered under the Great Lakes system, and there are not as many boats in the way slowing down the med/slow handicap fleets. Its just a case of which crime you want to be shot for really :)
Edited by Paramedic - 30 Oct 17 at 8:26am |
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Late starter
Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 481 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 8:58am |
Stick with the PY scheme. It has the most data. We had a dreadful experience at my club when we tried local adjustments, caused no end of rows and we lost members so not something I'd want to repeat.
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423zero
Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3406 |
Post Options Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 17 at 10:01am |
Only PY issue at my club is from Topaz virtually unbeatable.
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